Military units at the time

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Military units at the time

Unread postby Havie » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:15 am

Hello again!

Ive decided to split this into a separate topic rather than continue in my economic/belief system one.
As as most of you know Im making a ROTK mod for Shogun2.

I was wondering what units you guys would think would be the best way to set up the recruitable units.

So far Im thinking

Generic:
Peasant Spearmen
Peasant Archers
Han light swordsmen
Han light spearmen
Han light Archers
Heavy swordsmen
Heavy Spearmen
Heavy archers?
Light cavalry

Wu:
Jiandong Pikemen
Danyang infantry
Hengjian shooters


Wei:
Tiger knight heavy cavalry
Zhonguan heavy pikemen
Qingzhou horse archers

Shu:
Xuzhou heavy infantry
White feather warriors
nanzhong infantry?

Gonguzun :
White horse riders
Wu han riders?

Mateng:
some Xiiliang or something cavalry ?


for Zhang Jiao and other strategist units (sima yi zhuge liang) ill use the fire bomb throwers and make them some kind of ambush unit.

Any other input here would be great! as i am unaware of the historical accuracy of the units used at this time.
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Re: Military units at the time

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:10 am

With shu, maybe think of a special crossbow unit?
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Re: Military units at the time

Unread postby DragonAtma » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:39 am

The yellow turbans were known for having large numbers of peasants, so I'd recommend giving them custom peasant infantry (Turban Spearmen, Turban Archers) with larger numbers and higher morale.

The bandits under Yan Baihu and Zhang Yan were a unique type, so they'd also have a unique bandit type.

There would also be ethnic warriors:
Nanman Elephants
Qiang Cavalry
Qiang Mounted Archers
Shanyue Hill Warriors
Shanyue Pillagers
Xiongnu Cavalry
Xiongnu Mounted Archers
Xianbei/Wuhuan Cavalry (Book of the Later Han says Xianbei and Wuhuan had the same language and culture)
Xianbei/Wuhuan Mounted Archers

Finally, there were some officers with small, ultra-elite forces, such as Gao Shun. So I'd add in such a unit but limit recruitment (maybe one per building?).
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Re: Military units at the time

Unread postby Equinox » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:14 pm

All good suggestions - one that I would add is a Nanman rattan armor unit, which is resistant to arrows. A nice colorful addition that would make for some interesting infantry strategies.
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Re: Military units at the time

Unread postby Sun Fin » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:01 pm

DragonAtma wrote:The yellow turbans were known for having large numbers of peasants, so I'd recommend giving them custom peasant infantry (Turban Spearmen, Turban Archers) with larger numbers and higher morale.


Maybe peasant fanatics? They can endure heavy losses before breaking?
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Re: Military units at the time

Unread postby Havie » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:31 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:With shu, maybe think of a special crossbow unit?


I think there is a mod that brought in crossbow units to the game, i can look into this.

DragonAtma wrote:The yellow turbans were known for having large numbers of peasants, so I'd recommend giving them custom peasant infantry (Turban Spearmen, Turban Archers) with larger numbers and higher morale.

The bandits under Yan Baihu and Zhang Yan were a unique type, so they'd also have a unique bandit type.

There would also be ethnic warriors:
Nanman Elephants
Qiang Cavalry
Qiang Mounted Archers
Shanyue Hill Warriors
Shanyue Pillagers
Xiongnu Cavalry
Xiongnu Mounted Archers
Xianbei/Wuhuan Cavalry (Book of the Later Han says Xianbei and Wuhuan had the same language and culture)
Xianbei/Wuhuan Mounted Archers

Finally, there were some officers with small, ultra-elite forces, such as Gao Shun. So I'd add in such a unit but limit recruitment (maybe one per building?).



ok, so why would i give the turban forces high morale? they were peasants, wouldnt they break infront of a real army?

As far as Shanyu werent these Wu troops?

Elephants I probably wont add.. seems like alot to code.

Idk anything about where Xiongu, Xianbei or Qiang units would go, youd have to be more specific.
Heres a link to the map im basing it off of so you could tell me specific regions maybe? or factions.
http://i.imgur.com/gnUWMUR.jpg

Wuhan is for the north right? by gongsun zan/ gongsun Du? were they units these factions should have?

very interested in these small ultra elite forces, tell me more about this and Gao Shun. this is very do-able

Sun Fin wrote:
DragonAtma wrote:The yellow turbans were known for having large numbers of peasants, so I'd recommend giving them custom peasant infantry (Turban Spearmen, Turban Archers) with larger numbers and higher morale.


Maybe peasant fanatics? They can endure heavy losses before breaking?



once again not sure why peasant militia would need to be so fearless that they would out last/out perform well trained soldiers on the battlefield? do these peasants have ahistory of never running and fighting till the death?
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Re: Military units at the time

Unread postby Sun Fin » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:46 pm

Havie wrote:

Wuhan is for the north right? by gongsun zan/ gongsun Du? were they units these factions should have?


Pretty much. Gongsun Zan's famous white horse cavalry were Wuhuan, interestingly they were especially effective against other Wuhuan. A leader of the Wuhuan, Tadun, fought alongside Yuan Shao until his defeat and they were eventually defeated by Cao Cao at which point they served him as his elite cavalry. So they should belong to those armies.



Havie wrote:
Sun Fin wrote:
DragonAtma wrote:The yellow turbans were known for having large numbers of peasants, so I'd recommend giving them custom peasant infantry (Turban Spearmen, Turban Archers) with larger numbers and higher morale.


Maybe peasant fanatics? They can endure heavy losses before breaking?



once again not sure why peasant militia would need to be so fearless that they would out last/out perform well trained soldiers on the battlefield? do these peasants have ahistory of never running and fighting till the death?


I was more thinking that they were better than your normal peasant. Not as good as a properly trained soldier but having better morale than a peasant fighting for warlord that they don't care about!
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Re: Military units at the time

Unread postby Havie » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:21 pm

ahh i gotcha, higher morale than the generic peasants. okay

And for the wuhaun, they should not be recruitable by caocao and yuan shao then?? hmm maybe i could do something where they are only recruitable for who owns that region in the north.
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Re: Military units at the time

Unread postby DragonAtma » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:56 pm

Wuhuan are fine. Xianbei are fine. It's just that they were basically they same, so having both of them is a bit silly.

Of course, if you plan on having multiple scenarios, you can have Wuhuan in earlier scenarios and Xianbei in later scenarios (the switch is in 207-208 AD, as Xianbei fills the void left when the Wuhuan are crushed).
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