Information on Tao Qian and later Han Xu Province

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Information on Tao Qian and later Han Xu Province

Unread postby waywardauthor » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:27 pm

Hello all,

For a long time I have been thinking about writing a historical essay on the period we all seem to share a deep interest in. At the moment though, I am in-between universities and do not have access to a lot of materials to make this really doable. Through the ZZTJ and Rafe's dictionary reference I have a good starting point, but if anyone has the ability to post excerpts on Tao Qian, I would greatly appreciate it. There does not appear much, but I am holding out hope that Imperial Warlord, Fire over Luoyang, or Ts'ao Ts'ao and the Rise of Wei might have a few spare paragraphs on the man.

In the meantime, I will try to puzzle my way through the Chinese biographies of him. It will be pretty child-like, and I expect a lot of errors, but it should be useful in some way or another.

Thank you in advance!
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Re: Information on Tao Qian and later Han Xu Province

Unread postby capnnerefir » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:01 pm

If you need translations of biographies, you can find a translation of Tao Qian's HHS here:
http://web.archive.org/web/200710150802 ... tid=125353

If that link doesn't work for you, I have the text in a word document I can share. I don't think anyone has done a SGZ translation for Tao Qian, although since the HHS is based on the SGZ I doubt there would be significant differences.

Imperial Warlord doesn't offer much new in the way of new information on Tao Qian (nothing you probably haven't read already) but it does help to put his actions (and his conflict with Cao Cao) into a clearer context.
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Re: Information on Tao Qian and later Han Xu Province

Unread postby waywardauthor » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:09 am

capnnerefir wrote:If you need translations of biographies, you can find a translation of Tao Qian's HHS here:
http://web.archive.org/web/200710150802 ... tid=125353

If that link doesn't work for you, I have the text in a word document I can share. I don't think anyone has done a SGZ translation for Tao Qian, although since the HHS is based on the SGZ I doubt there would be significant differences.

Imperial Warlord doesn't offer much new in the way of new information on Tao Qian (nothing you probably haven't read already) but it does help to put his actions (and his conflict with Cao Cao) into a clearer context.

Thank you Capnnerefir!

The translation is amazing, it certainly saved me a lot of fumbling. Its a little disappointing that Imperial Warlord doesn't have much on him, but that's part of why I thought about doing this. Tao Qian is a character a lot of people are aware of as a reference point, but there hasn't been anything written about him from what I can see.
Alone I lean under the wispy shade of an aged tree,
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Longingly I cast an empty vessel aside those exposed roots,
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Re: Information on Tao Qian and later Han Xu Province

Unread postby capnnerefir » Mon May 01, 2017 4:41 pm

I have a collection of info on Tao Qian around here somewhere. I'll see if I can organize it for you. Do you have an impending deadline?
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Re: Information on Tao Qian and later Han Xu Province

Unread postby waywardauthor » Mon May 01, 2017 6:46 pm

capnnerefir wrote:I have a collection of info on Tao Qian around here somewhere. I'll see if I can organize it for you. Do you have an impending deadline?

That would be amazing! Thank you,

I do not have a deadline, so there's no rush.
Alone I lean under the wispy shade of an aged tree,
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Longingly I cast an empty vessel aside those exposed roots,
And leave behind forgotten memories and forsaken dreams.
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Re: Information on Tao Qian and later Han Xu Province

Unread postby waywardauthor » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:13 pm

capnnerefir wrote:I have a collection of info on Tao Qian around here somewhere. I'll see if I can organize it for you. Do you have an impending deadline?

Hey Capn,

How's the organization coming along? Still no rush, just thought I should ask.
Alone I lean under the wispy shade of an aged tree,
Scornfully I raise to parted lips a cup of warm wine,
Longingly I cast an empty vessel aside those exposed roots,
And leave behind forgotten memories and forsaken dreams.
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Re: Information on Tao Qian and later Han Xu Province

Unread postby capnnerefir » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:25 am

Mostly, but a lot of personal stuff came up. Thanks for the reminder, I'll try to get that polished up for you.

If it seems like I forgot again or time begins to press, PM me. I'm eager to help, just a bit distractable.
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Re: Information on Tao Qian and later Han Xu Province

Unread postby DragonAtma » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:05 pm

IIRC Tai Qian was also involved in the battle against liangzhou rebels, plus he started the careers of some notable officers (such as Chen Deng and Wang Lang). Much like 190-ish Yuan Shu, he was a less-than-competent leader with multiple skilled followers.
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Re: Information on Tao Qian and later Han Xu Province

Unread postby capnnerefir » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:09 am

He was briefly involved in the campaign in Liang, as Zhang Wen's adjutant - but he was sent over to Xu province only a few months into the campaign, so his role was a minor one.
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Re: Information on Tao Qian and later Han Xu Province

Unread postby waywardauthor » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:35 pm

capnnerefir wrote:Mostly, but a lot of personal stuff came up. Thanks for the reminder, I'll try to get that polished up for you.

If it seems like I forgot again or time begins to press, PM me. I'm eager to help, just a bit distractable.

Thank you, I appreciate it. I will definitely have something to show for it before I press too eagerly. It wouldn't be fair if I became an overeager consumer, but failed to produce.

DragonAtma wrote:IIRC Tai Qian was also involved in the battle against liangzhou rebels, plus he started the careers of some notable officers (such as Chen Deng and Wang Lang). Much like 190-ish Yuan Shu, he was a less-than-competent leader with multiple skilled followers.
Thanks for the tip!

Tao Qian had his hand in a couple of unexpected things, which speaks to the complicated nature of the fall of the Han. Most men like him get wiped out fairly early, so if only for that reason it is interesting that he saw someone overtake him peacefully from within than conquered from without.
Alone I lean under the wispy shade of an aged tree,
Scornfully I raise to parted lips a cup of warm wine,
Longingly I cast an empty vessel aside those exposed roots,
And leave behind forgotten memories and forsaken dreams.
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