Zhang-Hao/Lu-Bu vs Liu-Bei/Guan-Yu/Zhang-Fei

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Zhang-Hao/Lu-Bu vs Liu-Bei/Guan-Yu/Zhang-Fei

Unread postby D.EVILGOD » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:55 pm

Hello All, I Am Zhang Hao.

I have been playing around with RTK XI games and doing research on RTK.

I have created a custom created force with 150 new characters based upon Japanese, South Korean & Hollywood Celebrities as my Families & my Officers.

My Created Ruler's Name Is Zhang Hao.

Now I just received a very mysterious message that I am supposed to create my "Close Friend Compatibility" score to Lu Bu.

Upon further research, it seems that Lu Bu's compatibility score is the complete reverse of Liu Bei, Guan Yu & Zhang Fei.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14927&start=5130#p573133

Now, I am not familiar at all with ancient chinese history and my head aches when i look at wikipedia.

Can anyone kindly help a poor chinese history student here with some concise summaries of the relationships between Lu Bu & Liu Bei, Guan Yu & Zhang Fei?

I will response by posting my own stories of my own Created Celebrities Factions.

:wink:
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Re: Zhang-Hao/Lu-Bu vs Liu-Bei/Guan-Yu/Zhang-Fei

Unread postby DragonAtma » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:53 pm

Welcome to the forum.

Despite what the novel claims, Liu Bei was not part of the ADZC (Anti-Dong Zhuo coalition); the ADZC and Dong Zhuo butted heads a bit, Luo Yang burned, the ADZC disbanded, and Lu Bu killed Dong Zhuo.

Now, afterwards what used to be the Dong Zhuo faction split into two groups:
* The loyalist faction (Lu Bu, Wang Yun, Li Su, Xu Rong, etc.)
* The Li Jue faction (Li Jue, Guo Si, Fan Chou, Zhang Ji, etc.)

Less than two months after Dong Zhuo's death, Team Li Jue recovered Changan and sent Lu Bu fleeing. After being rejected by Yuan Shu and briefly serving Yuan Shao (who tried -- and failed -- to assassinate him), in 194 Zhang Miao happened. You see, Zhang Miao was a good friend of both Cao Cao and Yuan Shao, but during the ADZC there was a falling out between Zhang Miao and Yuan Shao -- who, after Zhang Miao admonished him, wanted to kill Zhang Miao (but was talked out of it by Cao Cao). But Zhang Miao was worried that Yuan Shao may yet convince Cao Cao to kill him -- so in 194, while Cao Cao was attacking Tao Qian (and later Tao Qian's heir, Liu Bei), Zhang Miao rebelled and asked Lu Bu for assistance.

The problem is, Cao Cao is Cao Cao -- so even though most of Yanzhou joined Zhang Miao's side, within two years Cao Cao recovered all of Yanzhou, and Lu Bu was forced to flee -- and chose to flee to Liu Bei.

Officially, Lu Bu insisted on treating Liu Bei like a brother -- but privately I'm sure they weren't so close. In 196 there was a quarrel between Zhang Fei and Chancellor Cao Bao of Xiapi; Zhang Fei killed Cao Bao, and that led to riots. During the riots, Lu Bu turned on Liu Bei and seized the city -- and after Liu Bei was attacked and defeated by Yuan Shu, he was forced to serve under Lu Bu. But for whatever reason, when advised to let Yuan Shu's attacking troops kill Liu Bei, Lu Bu decided to save him instead. Lu Bu arranged peace between Liu Bei and Yuan Shu's general, Ji Ling.

After that? Lu Bu became concerned about Liu Bei getting too strong, so he attacked Liu Bei, who was defeated and forced to flee to Cao Cao.

Now, Yuan Shu was impressed enough to arrange for his son to marry Lu Bu's daughter. But Chen Gui and his son Chen Deng -- who both felt Xuzhou would be better off without Lu Bu convinced Lu Bu to change his mind again and call the betrothal off. Shortly after, Yuan Shu declared himself emperor -- which meant Cao Cao, Liu Bei, and Lu Bu attacked him, while there were multiple rebellions (including Sun Ce).

Then, for whatever reason, Lu Bu broke with Cao Cao/Liu Bei and supported Yuan Shu. Again. He sent Liu Bei fleeing back to Cao Cao, but Cao Cao came to attack in person. Cao Cao was clearly better at leading troops than Lu Bu, and in 198 Lu Bu was eventually besieged in his own capital. With things falling apart, Lu Bu was forced to surrender. He begged Cao Cao to let him serve him, which Cao Cao was considering, but Liu Bei reminded him of Lu Bu's multiple betrayals.

And so Lu Bu -- who switched sides enough times to make Talleyrand blush -- was executed. The way I see it, Lu Bu was only loyal to himself; he had trouble remaining loyal to other people, and even when he wanted to he was the kind of person who was easily swayed to change his mind.
Last edited by DragonAtma on Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.
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Re: Zhang-Hao/Lu-Bu vs Liu-Bei/Guan-Yu/Zhang-Fei

Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:16 am

D.EVILGOD wrote:
Can anyone kindly help a poor chinese history student here with some concise summaries of the relationships between Lu Bu & Liu Bei, Guan Yu & Zhang Fei?


Dragons post is more comprehensive than mine but depending on how much 3K stuff you have played the number of names mentioned might be a bit confusing so I'm going to attempt a really simpler answer.

Lu Bu and Liu Bei were at times allies of convenience as they occasionally shared enemies but I doubt they ever trusted each other. Lu Bu repeatedly betrayed Liu Bei, at one point stealing Liu Bei's capital city. Finally Liu Bei had enough and joined with public enemy no.1 (Cao Cao) to destroy Lu Bu. Lu Bu was defeated and executed.
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” ― Nelson Mandela
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Re: Zhang-Hao/Lu-Bu vs Liu-Bei/Guan-Yu/Zhang-Fei

Unread postby Valvatorez » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:25 am

Lu Bu does happen to be one of my favorite characters, I don't think he was as dumb as some things make him out to be, but do agree that he would only stay loyal to himself. I think he might have been a good leader in some ways, he just didn't have the kind of power or base that others did for their military, and didn't have enough officers to help him out, but when matched up against someone with much better leadership like Cao Cao, he wouldn't have a chance. I also think that Liu Bei and Lu Bu did seem to share a city once as well and Lu Bu overtook it while Bei was away forcing Liu Bei to serve under him at least a little bit, which Zhang Fei and Guan Yu resented as well.
Since you are playing XI in particular though, both Guan Yu and Zhang Fei hate Lu Bu and will refuse to work for him(although its not impossible if you end up getting Liu Bei), as well Lu Bu hating both of them, but even though their compatibility scores are on opposite ends, your created character can still employ them and others with their number, you just in general will have an easier time employing people near Lu Bu's number, so overall the compatibility score you don't need to worry too much about.
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Re: Zhang-Hao/Lu-Bu vs Liu-Bei/Guan-Yu/Zhang-Fei

Unread postby DragonAtma » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:17 am

Lu Bu may not have been a total idiot, but he was extremely suggestible (and, if he lived in 2017, would be the exact sort of person lawyers would want on their jury).
Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.
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Re: Zhang-Hao/Lu-Bu vs Liu-Bei/Guan-Yu/Zhang-Fei

Unread postby D.EVILGOD » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:29 am

Valvatorez wrote:Lu Bu does happen to be one of my favorite characters, I don't think he was as dumb as some things make him out to be, but do agree that he would only stay loyal to himself. I think he might have been a good leader in some ways, he just didn't have the kind of power or base that others did for their military, and didn't have enough officers to help him out, but when matched up against someone with much better leadership like Cao Cao, he wouldn't have a chance. I also think that Liu Bei and Lu Bu did seem to share a city once as well and Lu Bu overtook it while Bei was away forcing Liu Bei to serve under him at least a little bit, which Zhang Fei and Guan Yu resented as well.

Since you are playing XI in particular though, both Guan Yu and Zhang Fei hate Lu Bu and will refuse to work for him(although its not impossible if you end up getting Liu Bei), as well Lu Bu hating both of them, but even though their compatibility scores are on opposite ends, your created character can still employ them and others with their number, you just in general will have an easier time employing people near Lu Bu's number, so overall the compatibility score you don't need to worry too much about.


Thank you all for your all posts.

1) My campaigns are these. I am going to create a force of 150 generals, 75 female & 75 male.

All 150 generals will be the most popular celebrities on our planet right now.
The 75 male celebrities will consist of 25 south korean male celebrities, 25 japanese male celebrities & 25 hollywood male celebrities.
The 75 female celebrities will consist of 75 female south korean celebrities and female japanese celebrities who are currently 10-50 years old and are south korean/japanese actresses, k-pop or j-pop singers, gravure models, auto expo models, afreecatv broadcast jockeys & the like.

Because I am an avid asian media fan, this is why i am basing all my generals on celebrities worldwide. For eg, if you youtubed & googled "car show models", you will see a lot of sexy, glamorous, beautiful female auto models like Ryu Ji Hye who is actually Zhang Hao's spouse.

2) Also, since I am playing with 150 celebrity generals, all my forces and 150 celebrity generals will hate Liu Bei, Zhuge Liang, Guan Yu, Sun Quan, Cao Cao to the very core.

So basically since I will be playing in the year 211 scenario, after Liu Bei has recruited Zhuge Liang, I do not want these three factions especially Liu Bei, Sun Quan, Cao Cao to have the slightest chances of swaying my generals' loyalties to recruit them.

Also I do not want to recruit any chinese general ever. I will only play with my 150 celebrity non-chinese generals until my ultimate victories by conquering all of china with all my 150 celebrity non-chinese generals.

3) All my 150 celebrity generals have 100 stats for all five categories so they are the most powerful generals of all. However, I am still confused about what type of skills to give to my 150 celebrity generals to make them the most powerful forces of all china.

4) I might post a list of all my 150 celebrity generals' bios later.
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Re: Zhang-Hao/Lu-Bu vs Liu-Bei/Guan-Yu/Zhang-Fei

Unread postby D.EVILGOD » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:43 am

Sun Fin wrote:
D.EVILGOD wrote:
Can anyone kindly help a poor chinese history student here with some concise summaries of the relationships between Lu Bu & Liu Bei, Guan Yu & Zhang Fei?


Dragons post is more comprehensive than mine but depending on how much 3K stuff you have played the number of names mentioned might be a bit confusing so I'm going to attempt a really simpler answer.

Lu Bu and Liu Bei were at times allies of convenience as they occasionally shared enemies but I doubt they ever trusted each other. Lu Bu repeatedly betrayed Liu Bei, at one point stealing Liu Bei's capital city. Finally Liu Bei had enough and joined with public enemy no.1 (Cao Cao) to destroy Lu Bu. Lu Bu was defeated and executed.


Hi Sun Fin, if i may ask you about rtk xi's compatibility scores between Lu Bu & Liu-Bei/Zhang-Fei/Guan-Yu/Zhuge Liang, why do Lu Bu so hate Liu-Bei/Zhang-Fei/Guan-Yu/Zhuge Liang so much?

I got the inspiration for my Created Ruler Zhang Hao to be Lu Bu's close friend because I want Zhang Hao & all his 150 celebrity generals to hate Guan-Yu/Zhang-Fei/Liu-Bei/Zhuge Liang completey to be the most hated bitter rivals & enemies.
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Re: Zhang-Hao/Lu-Bu vs Liu-Bei/Guan-Yu/Zhang-Fei

Unread postby Sun Fin » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:01 am

D.EVILGOD wrote:
Hi Sun Fin, if i may ask you about rtk xi's compatibility scores between Lu Bu & Liu-Bei/Zhang-Fei/Guan-Yu/Zhuge Liang, why do Lu Bu so hate Liu-Bei/Zhang-Fei/Guan-Yu/Zhuge Liang so much?

I got the inspiration for my Created Ruler Zhang Hao to be Lu Bu's close friend because I want Zhang Hao & all his 150 celebrity generals to hate Guan-Yu/Zhang-Fei/Liu-Bei/Zhuge Liang completey to be the most hated bitter rivals & enemies.


Well Lu Bu betrayed Liu Bei and so Liu Bei joined a treaty that ended up in Lu Bu dying. I suspect most people hate someone they view as responsible for their death?
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” ― Nelson Mandela
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Re: Zhang-Hao/Lu-Bu vs Liu-Bei/Guan-Yu/Zhang-Fei

Unread postby Valvatorez » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:21 pm

DragonAtma wrote:Lu Bu may not have been a total idiot, but he was extremely suggestible (and, if he lived in 2017, would be the exact sort of person lawyers would want on their jury).


I guess my point was that some of the games give him, along with Zhang Fei, very low Int ratings, usually below 20-30, and they would probably be a bitter better than that, also that Lu Bu only really knew his own strength and that's all he trusted and counted on, if he had actually listened to his advisors that he did have, or had the same kind of family or background that some others like Cao Cao/Sun Quan did, he would've did a lot better, even though he may have ended up having the same fate later on anyways. But I'm a bit biased I guess, it may not have changed anything at all in the end either way. Actually I have no idea what kind of family he had before he joined Ding Yuan.

D.EVILGOD wrote:2) Also, since I am playing with 150 celebrity generals, all my forces and 150 celebrity generals will hate Liu Bei, Zhuge Liang, Guan Yu, Sun Quan, Cao Cao to the very core.

So basically since I will be playing in the year 211 scenario, after Liu Bei has recruited Zhuge Liang, I do not want these three factions especially Liu Bei, Sun Quan, Cao Cao to have the slightest chances of swaying my generals' loyalties to recruit them.


Keep in mind that if any of those people you listed are leaders and they somehow capture any of your created officers, they will execute them on the spot since they know that they hate them. It would be much better if you just had your created officers list your main ruler as one of their Liked officers, that way even if they do end up getting captured, they won't betray you and their loyalty would be so high that you wouldn't really have to worry about it until you are able to get them back.

Also just in case you don't have this already, you can use this if you want to put the actual pictures of your characters into the game:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19619
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