HHS biography of Huangfu Song (translation)

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

HHS biography of Huangfu Song (translation)

Unread postby plunged » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:11 pm

Hello all,

As a follow up to my previous topic (about He Jin) here is another translation of a famous Han general: Huangfu Song.

His official biography is in chapter 71 of the History of the Later Han.

And here's the translation:

Image

http://threekingdoms.wikia.com/wiki/Hua ... B%E5%B5%A9.

Please note that it's as good as finished, but not entirely. I wanna do another double-check by comparing it with some of Rafe de Crespigny's works to see if all titles etc are translated like he does (I like to use his translations of titles and terminology as standard).

So, please tell me what you think of this translation.

Btw... I'm also doing a bit of redesigning on my wiki, mainly the main page. Im not a real design or .css-coding expert, but what do you guys think of the new main page? As you can see the main colours are red and yellow. I picked these because Red was Shu-Han's reign colour (assumably) and Yellow was the reign colour for Wei and Wu. Coincidentally Red and Yellow are also China's national colours today.
Please check out: Gongjin's Campaign Memorials: a Three Kingdoms Wiki.
Now with translations of: He Jin, Huangfu Song, Zhu Jun, Lu Zhi, Cheng Pu, Sima Shi, Lady Wang and many more.

Read Romance of the Three Kingdoms online (with corrected names)
User avatar
plunged
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 8:39 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: HHS biography of Huangfu Song (translation)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:58 pm

Thanks for the bio Plunged! It is awesome!

Reading through it the paragraph where Song is talking to Yan Zhong is very long and perhaps should be split up a bit?

The Emperor agreed, and summoned elite troops across the nation, and selected a large number of commanders. The Emperor appointed Song as the General of the Household of the Left (zuǒ zhōngláng jiāng 左中郎將). And Song was also granted the right of Bearing the Staff of Authority (zhíjié 持節). With the assistance of Zhu Jun, the General of the Household of the Right (yòu zhōngláng jiāng 右中郎將), he summoned the Five Colonels Armies, cavalry of Henan commandery, Hexi commandery and Hedong commandery. They also recruited forty thousand men in total. Song and [Zhu] Jun both led an army respectively to quell the Yellow Turban rebels.


Who are the five colonels armies that I emphasised above?
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” ― Nelson Mandela
User avatar
Sun Fin
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 6763
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: The birthplace of radio

Re: HHS biography of Huangfu Song (translation)

Unread postby DragonAtma » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:44 pm

Aha! It's a biography of the guy who deserves above all others to become playable in DyW9!

It's good, but I should add a couple things:

(1) I would add that Tian Dan's actions were just after the death of the highly incompetent King Min of Qi, who managed to lose all but two of Qi's cities. Tian Dan's unorthodox tactics managed to recover over seventy (!) cities, regaining all of Qi's lost territory.
(2) Although you translated the turban as Bu Ji, virtually everywhere else I've seen him as Bu Si.
(3) Your biography says that Huangfu Li is the son of Huangfu Song; http://kongming.net/encyclopedia/Huangfu-Li says that he's the nephew of Huangfu Song. Sometime, you and James should come to an agreement on which one is correct. ;)

On a random note, if we're doing genealogy, https://books.google.com/books?id=dNzZS ... 22&f=false says that Huangfu Song had another son, Huangfu Shuxian (who was magistrate of Baling County and the grandfather of the scholar/physician Huangfu Mi).
Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.

In memory of my beloved cats, Anastasia (9/30/06-9/18/17, illness) and Josephine (1/19/06-9/23/17, cancer).
DragonAtma
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1009
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:19 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: HHS biography of Huangfu Song (translation)

Unread postby plunged » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:00 pm

Sun Fin wrote:Thanks for the bio Plunged! It is awesome!

Reading through it the paragraph where Song is talking to Yan Zhong is very long and perhaps should be split up a bit?


Thanks, and yes maybe I should. It's like this now because this part in the original text was also one whole paragraph.

Sun Fin wrote:Who are the five colonels armies that I emphasised above?


That's a mistake I'm afraid... Should probably be "Five Regiments [of the Northern Army]", according to Rafe it was a fully professional force stationed in Luoyang and used as a strategic reserve.
Please check out: Gongjin's Campaign Memorials: a Three Kingdoms Wiki.
Now with translations of: He Jin, Huangfu Song, Zhu Jun, Lu Zhi, Cheng Pu, Sima Shi, Lady Wang and many more.

Read Romance of the Three Kingdoms online (with corrected names)
User avatar
plunged
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 8:39 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: HHS biography of Huangfu Song (translation)

Unread postby plunged » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:28 pm

DragonAtma wrote:Aha! It's a biography of the guy who deserves above all others to become playable in DyW9!

It's good, but I should add a couple things:

(1) I would add that Tian Dan's actions were just after the death of the highly incompetent King Min of Qi, who managed to lose all but two of Qi's cities. Tian Dan's unorthodox tactics managed to recover over seventy (!) cities, regaining all of Qi's lost territory.
(2) Although you translated the turban as Bu Ji, virtually everywhere else I've seen him as Bu Si.
(3) Your biography says that Huangfu Li is the son of Huangfu Song; http://kongming.net/encyclopedia/Huangfu-Li says that he's the nephew of Huangfu Song. Sometime, you and James should come to an agreement on which one is correct. ;)

On a random note, if we're doing genealogy, https://books.google.com/books?id=dNzZS ... 22&f=false says that Huangfu Song had another son, Huangfu Shuxian (who was magistrate of Baling County and the grandfather of the scholar/physician Huangfu Mi).


Thanks. If the Han ever becomes a force, they should include Huangfu Song no doubt! And give him better stats. Though he may not have that many battles to play in?

(2) I usually go with Bu Si 巳 too, but in HHS, or the version I have at least, his name is written as 己, which means Ji. I'm now starting to doubt my HHS copy though, because so far I've only seen his name written as Bu Si 巳 or Bu Yi 已, not Bu Ji 己...

(3) And Kongming's right. :( another error :(, but thanks for pointing it out. It probably comes from the line 嵩從子酈 though... (子=son)
Please check out: Gongjin's Campaign Memorials: a Three Kingdoms Wiki.
Now with translations of: He Jin, Huangfu Song, Zhu Jun, Lu Zhi, Cheng Pu, Sima Shi, Lady Wang and many more.

Read Romance of the Three Kingdoms online (with corrected names)
User avatar
plunged
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 8:39 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: HHS biography of Huangfu Song (translation)

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:44 pm

plunged wrote:
Sun Fin wrote:Who are the five colonels armies that I emphasised above?


That's a mistake I'm afraid... Should probably be "Five Regiments [of the Northern Army]", according to Rafe it was a fully professional force stationed in Luoyang and used as a strategic reserve.


Ah interesting! So the Northern Army were put under He Jin's command when the plot was first discovered but were then split between Huangfu Song and Zhu Jun to form the spine of their armies.

Your biographies are becoming very helpful in my attempt to trace the history of the Northern Army :lol:
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” ― Nelson Mandela
User avatar
Sun Fin
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 6763
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: The birthplace of radio

Re: HHS biography of Huangfu Song (translation)

Unread postby plunged » Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:57 pm

Sun Fin wrote:
plunged wrote:
Sun Fin wrote:Who are the five colonels armies that I emphasised above?


That's a mistake I'm afraid... Should probably be "Five Regiments [of the Northern Army]", according to Rafe it was a fully professional force stationed in Luoyang and used as a strategic reserve.


Ah interesting! So the Northern Army were put under He Jin's command when the plot was first discovered but were then split between Huangfu Song and Zhu Jun to form the spine of their armies.

Your biographies are becoming very helpful in my attempt to trace the history of the Northern Army :lol:


My pleasure :-)

iirc Lu Zhi also had a portion of the Northern Army under his command when he fought Zhang Jue.
Please check out: Gongjin's Campaign Memorials: a Three Kingdoms Wiki.
Now with translations of: He Jin, Huangfu Song, Zhu Jun, Lu Zhi, Cheng Pu, Sima Shi, Lady Wang and many more.

Read Romance of the Three Kingdoms online (with corrected names)
User avatar
plunged
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 8:39 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: HHS biography of Huangfu Song (translation)

Unread postby Xu Yuan » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:16 pm

Ah Huangfu Song... a man too honorable for his own good. The odds are if he would have gone with the second scheme to trap Dong Zhuo (while unbeknownst to him Dong Zhuo would be fleeing to Chang An soon enough) between Huangfu Song and the Coalition it really might have changed the course of history. I do think if the Han is ever made into a faction in DW that Huangfu Song should be playable. His roles can be during the Yellow Turban Rebellion (let's be honest here, he is The Hero of the rebellion, with the idea to throw out the Partisan Prohibitions), the Liang campaigns, and Wang Yun's revolt (The novel has Huangfu Song slay several of Dong Zhuo's power holders after Dong Zhuo's death which is why he is rewarded with rank.) If he's portrayed as a man who could end the chaos by nipping it in the bud, but doesn't do so to retain his honor, it would be a very interesting take on the concept of 'honor' being taken too far.

Great biography Plunged!
As you know security
is mortal's greatest enemy.

SimRTK is back up in a testing phase! Go ahead and give it a look over on the Simzhou forum branch.

http://simrtk.net/index.php
User avatar
Xu Yuan
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 899
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:13 pm

Re: HHS biography of Huangfu Song (translation)

Unread postby DragonAtma » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:51 pm

They don't even have to make a Han faction to make him playable; keep in mind that they've had Lu Bu and Diaochan as far back as DyW1.
Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.

In memory of my beloved cats, Anastasia (9/30/06-9/18/17, illness) and Josephine (1/19/06-9/23/17, cancer).
DragonAtma
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1009
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:19 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: HHS biography of Huangfu Song (translation)

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:18 pm

I thought I had responded to this?

Always been a fan of Song, the honour he had as well as the skill, it was nice getting details like the song and what happened with his nephew talking to Dong. Thank you
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
User avatar
Dong Zhou
A-Dou
A-Dou
 
Posts: 15063
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: "Now we must die. May Your Majesty maintain yourself"


Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 6 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved