Wuhuan

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Wuhuan

Unread postby Sun Fin » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:17 pm

I've been doing some research in to the Wuhuan tribes and they are described as a 'Proto-Mongolian' people, does that mean in physical appearance they would have resembled modern day Mongolians (tall, darker skinned, rounder cheeks then an average Chinese person of the era)?

Also do we know of many names for Wuhuan people of the era? The only ones I've been able to find are Hedan and Tedun.
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Re: Wuhuan

Unread postby DragonAtma » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:03 pm

Qiuliju was Tadun's uncle. Nanlou, Supuyan, and Wuyan served under Tadun. Wuchendi, Pufulu, and Nengchengdi were all WUhuan chieftains defeated by Cao Zhang. Luxi was also WUhuan; they say he was defeated, but not by who.

Do keep in mind that we get their names from the chinese, so the best we have is chinese approximations (just as the chinese version of the dutch name Maarten is identical to Ma Teng's name).

The Wuhuan and Xiongnu are both descended from the Donghu; Fan ye's Book of Later han says “the language and culture of the Xianbei are the same as the Wuhuan”. I would not be surprised if most of the northern nomads (Wuhuan, Xiongnu, Xianbei, etc.) were all similar in culture and appearance, especially compared to the chinese.
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Re: Wuhuan

Unread postby Sun Fin » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:38 pm

Thanks Dragon, that's a nice long list of names :).

As I thought, so tanned skin, rounded checks, brown hair and just generally being tall compared to the Chinese would be physical differences a Han man at the time would have noticed?
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Re: Wuhuan

Unread postby Fornadan » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:20 pm

DragonAtma wrote:Qiuliju was Tadun's uncle. Nanlou, Supuyan, and Wuyan served under Tadun. Wuchendi, Pufulu, and Nengchengdi were all WUhuan chieftains defeated by Cao Zhang. Luxi was also WUhuan; they say he was defeated, but not by who.

Do keep in mind that we get their names from the chinese, so the best we have is chinese approximations (just as the chinese version of the dutch name Maarten is identical to Ma Teng's name).


Also pinyin is an attempt to trancribe Chinese characters using modern Mandarin pronounciation. Pronounciation of the same characters during Han would have been quite different
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Re: Wuhuan

Unread postby DragonAtma » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:22 pm

Sun Fin wrote:Thanks Dragon, that's a nice long list of names :).

As I thought, so tanned skin, rounded checks, brown hair and just generally being tall compared to the Chinese would be physical differences a Han man at the time would have noticed?


Most likely. I'm not good with faces, but I fully realize that the differences between someone Spanish, someone French, and someone Italian are less than the difference between any of them and someone Chinese!

Similarly, the term Nanman covered everyone non-Chinese in the south, whether they were Zhuang, Tai, Bai, Miao, or some other ethnicity.
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Re: Wuhuan

Unread postby Jordan » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:35 am

As far as I know, the Xianbei inhabited parts of Northeastern Mongolia and Manchuria.

Barfield has described them as a Manchurian people, with which many other scholars dissented or found too simplistic. Manchuria was somewhat of a melting pot with various different people residing in the area, sometimes even from different language groups. The Xianbei were related to the Wuhuan who I imagine came from a similar region. I do not know if they were ethnically related. The Xiongnu also ruled over the Wuhuan at one point I think.

I think that any kind of relation between the Xianbei, Wuhuan and Mongolian peoples would probably be tenuous and speculative, personally. The Xianbei and Wuhuan were centuries apart from the Mongols.

Edit-Corrected a few things.
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