Biography of Gongsun Zan

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Re: Biography of Gongsun Zan

Unread postby TigerTally » Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:05 pm

Oh I see. So Leban is basically suggesting that Gongsun Zan defeated the Yellow Turban twice ... which is unlikely.

Biographies in HHS and SGZ of Gongsun Zan disagree with each other on this matter. The former puts the battle with YT before Gongsun Yue's death, while the latter says the the contrary. Also, the annals and Yuan Shao's biography in HHS both tell that Gongsun Zan's defeat of YT occurred in the winter of 191, more than a half year after Dong Zhuo's entrance to Chang'an. In all probability this series of events just happened very quickly, and we may never know which one really came first. :?
Last edited by TigerTally on Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Biography of Gongsun Zan

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:09 pm

What I thought Leban was suggesting is that Zan beats an army, the remnants scatter and he lets them go. Then, a few months later, Zan decides he wants to clean up the remnants. Possibly as an excuse for Fan to gather his army for them to become loyal to the Gongsun clan? That would explain why the sources are confused as well?
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Re: Biography of Gongsun Zan

Unread postby TigerTally » Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:30 pm

The annals of HHS put Gongsun Zan's battle with YT at the 11th month of 191 and the Battle of Jie Bridge at the 1st month of 192. ZZTJ even puts the latter in 191 as well. I doubt that he had enough time to "clean up the remnants" again in less than 2 months.

Also, most sources (except Zan's HHS bio) also infer that these two battles occur consequentially. For example, Wang Can's Heroic Biographies of Late Han claimed that "Gongsun Zan attacked the YT of Qing Province, had a great victory. Upon his return to Guangzong, he changed the governors and magistrates. All officers at Province Ji listened and answered to him. Yuan Zhao went on an expedition of Zan himself, and the two battled to the south of Jie Bridge"(公孫瓚擊青州黃巾賊,大破之,還屯廣宗,改易守令,冀州長吏無不望風響應。紹自往征瓚,合戰于界橋南), Pei Zongzhi said "Zan purported to expand his power because of his defeat of YT, so he placed inspectors at three provinces and intended to exterminate the Yuan clan" (瓚因破黃巾之威,意志張遠,遂置三州刺史,圖滅袁氏).

By far Gongsun Zan's HHS bio seems to be the only material that suggests an earlier defeat of YT. Personally I would say that it could be HHS that gets the order wrong.
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