Help me to like Sun Ce

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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby Shen Ai » Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:49 pm

Sun Fin wrote:
Zyzyfer wrote:
Sun Fin wrote:He is the Ying to Ce's Yang.


It's "yin". :shock:



:shock: That's awkward... typo...

Hmm, I guess we don't get to see Zhou Yu's flaws other than the bad fortune of dying young but they must have been there!


Well the novel overcompensates in regards to these flaws, so I think most people just like that Zhou Yu isn't that petty little cretin from the novel :p

Anyways, I like Sun Ce. He always struck me as inspiring and and dramatic. The stuff of heroes. The kind of guy you'd make a film or TV series about. Naturally, I enjoy Zhou Yu as well.
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby Boydie » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:16 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:Quan wrestled hand to hand with tigers and burnt down the door of his main adviser, the man was the living definition of epic :wink:


I do enjoy the thought of Sun Quan trying to apologized to Zhang Zhou for having disregared his good advice... and somehow escalating to setting Zhang's house on fire. I like to imagine Sun Quan sitting comfortably in a garden chair with a bottle of beer watching the fire escalate from Zhang's front garden and telling one of his personal guards. "Well that escalated quickly..." :lol:
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby Drewge » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:23 am

Sun Ce was definitely the best in the Sun family. He was able to take advice unlike his father, and seemed to be alot more confident than his brother, but thats just my observation. If I can recall, I think Sun Ce scored more victories than his father and his brother.
He also treated his subjects with kindness... or something cause they were all extremely loyal to him.

I often wonder how things would have played out if Sun Ce had lived at least to be the same age as Zhou Yu. I think Cao Cao would not have been able to solidify his position nearly as early as he did, since Sun Ce was already planning on attacking him at the time of his death. Jing would have probably been captured from Shu alot earlier since Ce would have probably went personally with Zhou Yu to deal with Guan Yu.

Damn... Why the hell did Sun Ce have to die so early? Sun Ce and Zhou Yu probably could have conquered all of China together.

Yeah, my stance may be a bit biased... I am a huge fan the Sun Ce and Zhou Yu duo.
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:57 pm

The attack on Cao Cao has been disputed by historians, or rather the extent of it. He may well have been looking to curb Chen Deng who was causing trouble but I doubt he was opening up yet another front with a full on invasion of Wei
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:21 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:The attack on Cao Cao has been disputed by historians, or rather the extent of it. He may well have been looking to curb Chen Deng who was causing trouble but I doubt he was opening up yet another front with a full on invasion of Wei


He previously tried attacking the Xu province right? I thought I read something about Chen Deng defeating an attempt by Sun Ce to move north previously.
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:58 pm

I think there was one against Chen Yu and two attacks against Chen Deng
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby Sun Fin » Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:42 am

As Dong said I suspect he was trying to take out Chen Deng so that he could then make a move against Liu Biao whilst Cao Cao was distracted by Yuan Shao!
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby PyroMystic » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:46 am

Bassaga wrote:I like the whole Sun family. I even like the whole Wu roster of heroes. Well, almost. Zhou Yu depresses me, but I can still enjoy him.

But man, Sun Ce. From what I remember in the book, he marries a hot girl, fights good, beats a guy to death for nothing, and dies. In the games he's super cocky. I guess his 2010 show portrayal doesn't irk me, but besides that, he always rubs me the wrong way. I want to like him, but it's just never worked.

What can you share that would endear that rascal Bofu to me?

Are you kidding? Sun Ce is the best ruler out there and I'm sure Wu would survive much longer if Sun Ce became the emperor instead of Sun Quan.

Also, he contributed a lot to Wu even when he was dead, considering he was one of the gene donors to that awesomeness called Lu Kang who was his grandson.
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby chinesecannibal » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:45 pm

Picture Sun Ce as the Alexander the Great that never made it past the Mediterranean Sea
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby solemio » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:30 pm

Here is an article that might help you to like Sun Ce, if not becoming a super fan just like the author. It was written by Yuan Mei, a famous writer in Qing Dynasty, in memory of Sun Ce. (I would translate it when I have time)
祭吴桓王庙文

袁枚

余年十七读吴桓王传,心感慕焉。后十年宰江宁,过铜井庙,有美少年像,披王者冕旒,英年奕奕。野人曰,是桓王也。余欷歔拜谒,奠少牢,为民祈福,而使祝读文曰:

惟正值天地之睢剌,为孤露之童牙。初亡姑蔑之旗,便射徒林之兕。先破虏将军,玉玺方收,金棺遽埋,有功帝室,未享侯封。

王收斟灌之遗兵,零星一旅;就渭阳之舅氏,涕泪千行。志在复仇,身先下士。神亭掷戟,立杆知太史之心;金鼓开城,解甲拜子鱼之坐。鸣角以招部曲,戌衣而习春秋。则有公瑾同年,舍道南之宅;乔公淑女,联吉偶之欢。自觉风流,私夸二婿;有谁旗鼓,敢斗三军。江有雾以皆清,陈无坚而不破。待豪杰如一体,用降兵如故人。逐奉佛之笮融,功高明帝;诛妖言之于吉,识过茂陵。起家曲阿,收兵牛渚。廓清吴会,奄有江东。

百姓以为龙自天来,虎凭风至,势必山倾地坼,井堙木刊矣。而乃望见兜鍪,陈平冠玉;再瞻谈笑,子晋神仙。三军无鸡犬之惊,千里有壶浆之献。气吞魏武,避猘儿之锋;表奏汉皇,迎许昌之驾。盖不逾年而大勋集矣。不图天意佳兵,三分已定;丹徒逐鹿,一矢相遗。剑出匣以沙埋,日东升而云掩。天实为之,非偶然也。

夫汉家之火德方衰,妖谶之黄龙已死。王如创业,美矣君哉。然观其绝公路之手书,宣昭大义;问刘繇之儿子,缱绻平生。虽神勇之非常,偏深情之若揭。就使请隧周室,谋鼎晖台,必非操、莽之奸邪,终见高、光之磊落也。而说者谓坐竟垂堂,勇忘重闭,未免粗同项羽,死类诸樊。不知伏弩军门,亦伤刘季;深追铜马,几失萧王。成败论人,古今同慨。彼齐武王之沉鸷,晋悼公之雍容,俱未轻身,亦无永岁,抑有何也?

今者庙貌虽颓,风云自在。端坐悒悒,郎君之神采珊然;秋草茫茫,讨逆之旌旗可想。三吴士女,皆王之遗民;六代云山,皆王之陈迹。守土官袁枚,幼读史书,掩卷生慕。来瞻祠宇,雪涕沾襟。难从隔代以执鞭,误欲升堂而拜母。修下士天台之表,寄将军帐下之儿。愿安泰历之坛,永锡编氓之福。勿孤普淖,鉴此丹诚。呜呼!千载论交,王识少年之令尹;九原若作,吾从总角之英雄!
You bloomed like a burning rose and exhausted my heart, which hence can bear nothing but weeds.
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