Help me to like Sun Ce

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Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby Bassaga » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:21 pm

I like the whole Sun family. I even like the whole Wu roster of heroes. Well, almost. Zhou Yu depresses me, but I can still enjoy him.

But man, Sun Ce. From what I remember in the book, he marries a hot girl, fights good, beats a guy to death for nothing, and dies. In the games he's super cocky. I guess his 2010 show portrayal doesn't irk me, but besides that, he always rubs me the wrong way. I want to like him, but it's just never worked.

What can you share that would endear that rascal Bofu to me?
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Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby Hussam » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:37 pm

Well since you like Wu then remember that Sun Ce was the man who actually made the foundation for Wu and I think Sun Quan wouldn't have possessed any piece of land if Ce hadn't conquered the territories of Wang Lang, Liu Yao and Yan Baihue.
His death was absolutely dramatized in the novel.
عالندا الندا الندا و الورد مفتح ع خدا
و إن ما عطيوني ياكي يا جبال العالي لهدا
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby Xiahou Ren » Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:10 am

- Well, he never beat Gan Ji/Yu Ji/whoever to death. That's one.
- He is loyal. Despite several unfair treatment from Yuan Shu, Sun Ce remained loyal to the very last possible moment.
- He is brave, one of six warrior who actually participated in a real duel.
- He is cunning. His performance against Ze/Zhai Rong, Liu Xun, and Yan Baihu, showed that he is not below deception and strategies to win victory.
- He recognized talents. It is amazing that had not a single talent got wasted on Sun Ce's reign. Zhou Yu, Huang Gai, Cheng Pu, Han Dang, Lu Fan, Zhang Zhao, Taishi Ci, Zhang Hong, He Qi, and many others I currently can't remember.
- He's extremely orderly, Zhao Yun/Cao Cao level of orderly. He forbade his soldier to raid cities, and punished his own soldier who had stole from Yuan Shu. This earned him respect from the people his own officers.
- He is friendly, likes chat and make jokes, but also humble and open-minded. He does not hesitate to listen to advices and opinions from his men. If you ask me, he is FAARRR from the smart-ass bad-boy persona in DW series.
- He is one of few men who literally noted as "good-looking".

Btw, Sun Ce is one of my favorite, if you haven't notice.
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:04 am

Sun Ce was very talented, as Xiahou Ren stated in that nice list he was excellent at recognizing talent and was a very good commander. Personally I don't believe he was better then his father, nor was he the administrator that his brother was, but he was far above the average officer and leader. It is a shame he died so early, I would have loved to see him faced off against some stronger opponents.
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby lcklasman » Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:44 am

It is important to note as well that Sun Ce was the one who made sure that there was a path laid down for Wu, by acquiring the land east of the Yangtze. And the fighting good thing I do not agree about, as no person was truly good. They were in a state of conflict after all. People were dying, no matter how you slice it.
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:22 pm

- He is loyal. Despite several unfair treatment from Yuan Shu, Sun Ce remained loyal to the very last possible moment.


Not so sure about that one Xiahou Ren

For me, Sun Ce's charisma does seem to read off the page like Cao Cao's (and unlike Liu Bei's) but he was a impressive young star, conquered the south, good with talent, charismatic, a more then able political player. Will always be questions of how would he do against the Cao Cao's of the world or as an administrator but when he lived, he was impressive.
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby Bassaga » Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:12 pm

Thanks, folks, I feel better about him already. I almost feel like I should root for him and mourn 'what might have been,' but let's not be hasty. :wink:
My mother used to say to me, 'You can be oh, so smart, or oh, so pleasant.'
Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby Jolt » Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:51 pm

Bassaga wrote:Thanks, folks, I feel better about him already. I almost feel like I should root for him and mourn 'what might have been,' but let's not be hasty. :wink:


He is also one of the very few people in the period who managed to create a sizeable realm from very little, and against all/most odds.

The other ones I can think who did similarly would be:

- Cao Cao (For obvious reasons)
- Yuan Shao (Was in a terrible position after Dong Zhuo's campaign and still managed to secure the North).
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby LiuBeiwasGreat » Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:05 am

Jolt wrote:
Bassaga wrote:Thanks, folks, I feel better about him already. I almost feel like I should root for him and mourn 'what might have been,' but let's not be hasty. :wink:


He is also one of the very few people in the period who managed to create a sizeable realm from very little, and against all/most odds.

The other ones I can think who did similarly would be:

- Cao Cao (For obvious reasons)
- Yuan Shao (Was in a terrible position after Dong Zhuo's campaign and still managed to secure the North).


Yuan Shao was a massively wealthy noble with tons of supporters, he had people flock to him. Cao Cao was also a high ranking noble who had huge support from his family and other supporters, neither of these two had too much of a difficult time raising forces.
The most obvious comparison would be Liu Bei who had fewer resources then even Sun Ce, at least Sun Ce had Yuan Shu's name to help him.
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Re: Help me to like Sun Ce

Unread postby lcklasman » Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:09 am

LiuBeiwasGreat wrote:
Jolt wrote:
Bassaga wrote:Thanks, folks, I feel better about him already. I almost feel like I should root for him and mourn 'what might have been,' but let's not be hasty. :wink:


He is also one of the very few people in the period who managed to create a sizeable realm from very little, and against all/most odds.

The other ones I can think who did similarly would be:

- Cao Cao (For obvious reasons)
- Yuan Shao (Was in a terrible position after Dong Zhuo's campaign and still managed to secure the North).


Yuan Shao was a massively wealthy noble with tons of supporters, he had people flock to him. Cao Cao was also a high ranking noble who had huge support from his family and other supporters, neither of these two had too much of a difficult time raising forces.
The most obvious comparison would be Liu Bei who had fewer resources then even Sun Ce, at least Sun Ce had Yuan Shu's name to help him.

It is also good to remember that both Liu Bei and Sun Ce had a good core of loyal people working under them. Liu Bei had Zhang Fei, and Zhuge Liang while Sun Ce had Zhou Yu, and Zhang Zhao of course Wu ended up able to cultivate more talent to aid in the power struggle, while Shu barely managed to get by in the later years.
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