Why Guan Ping still?

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Why Guan Ping still?

Unread postby Xiahou Ren » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:36 pm

First of all, I don't really play DW as much as RotK game, so I definitely not qualified to make any valid assessment for Koei's choice of characters. But from what I've seen so far, DW games seems to based from the novel, not the actual history.

This brings us to the question I'd like to ask. I'm gonna keep it simple. Why in God's green earth they're still keeping Guan Ping? Is he always a fairly highlighted character in the novel, or I am missing something? Even Xu Shu has his own spotlight twice (kicking Cao Ren's army and talking to Pang Tong prelude Chi Bi, iirc). But Guan Ping was just like...

"Guan Yu adopted a boy. His name is Guan Ping. He participated in some battles, but you can exchange him with a decently trained monkey and still won't affect the outcome at all. Then he' was captured trying to punch through the enemy encirclement in desperation for reinforcement, and was executed shortly after. The End."

How does that even qualify him in a same place as other characters?
He's more like your average mob than a stand out individual.
I would highly thankful for anyone who could point out what crucial part of the novel I'm missing about Guan Ping.
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Re: Why Guan Ping still?

Unread postby Cao Chao » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:12 pm

Xiahou Ren wrote:"Guan Yu adopted a boy. His name is Guan Ping. He participated in some battles, but you can exchange him with a decently trained monkey and still won't affect the outcome at all. Then he' was captured trying to punch through the enemy encirclement in desperation for reinforcement, and was executed shortly after. The End."

The problem is related to the mythological overlays that surround the god-figure known as Guan Gong or Lord Guan. Many typical depictions of Guan Yu includes Guan Ping on the right and Zhou Cang carrying the 青龙偃月刀 on the left. Furthermore, Guan Ping's portrayal in SGYY ensures that he's a major secondary character in Shu-Han. His exploits include serving as a major subordinate commander under Liu Bei during the campaign both before and after Pang Tong's death, and fighting Pang De for thirty bouts without a victor.

Beyond that, Guan Ping serves as a foil to the character, Liu Feng. While one is loyal and dies alongside his father, the other not only betrays his father's sworn brother, but also is executed for his supposed perfidy in the Meng Da defection.
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Re: Why Guan Ping still?

Unread postby capnnerefir » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:21 pm

Having Guan Ping around also lets Koei have more characters to praise Guan Yu. Thanks to Guan Ping we can learn how great of a father Guan Yu is - we know because Guan Ping and his brothers never stop talking about how great he is.
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Re: Why Guan Ping still?

Unread postby Xiahou Ren » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:22 am

Hmm... I still not really sure.
I can't shake the feel that Guan Ping is just one among the many. In a sense, he's no better than Pan Feng or Xiahou Mao. Just there to emphasize other character, rather than actual character himself. So yes, I agree with capn's last comment.

Pan Feng >>> Hua Xiong
Xiahou Mao >> Zhuge Liang
Guan Ping >>> Guan Yu

I took a glimpse of the latest DW8 character, and still think he's a terrible miscast, even compared to Liu Shan.
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Re: Why Guan Ping still?

Unread postby Jordan » Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:30 pm

He's far more notable in the novel, just like everything related to Guan Yu including Guan Yu himself.
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Re: Why Guan Ping still?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:19 pm

I may move this to the DW section in a day or two depending on other replies.

Xiahou Ren wrote:I took a glimpse of the latest DW8 character, and still think he's a terrible miscast, even compared to Liu Shan.


Actually, that was a brilliant move by Koei to include Liu Shan. I would more say Ping is on the level of the Qiao's.

Xiahou Ren wrote:But from what I've seen so far, DW games seems to based from the novel, not the actual history.


Yes koei tends to borrow novel but they do increasingly use history. Or their own imagination,

I'm going to split my answer in four parts as the question sort of covers a few area's:

1) Why won't they cut him: Koei tried in DW6 to reform the game and so cut a few characters. The reform wasn't enough and there was sheer anger from many fans over the cuts. If you want a reaction on a DW site, do a "should anyone be cut" or "If you had to cut someone out" thread then flee for the hills.

The move in 7 away from individual stories to kingdom stories proved a big success so that has probably helped koei keep characters without the headaches the larger roster used to provide and so they hope they never have to deal with the pitch-forks and flaming torches. There may come a time when they have to look at cuts again but till then, nobody (no matter how much koei might regret adding them) will get cut.

2) Novel Guan Ping: I actually quite liked Guan Ping, he was one of my first 3k usernames. He is mostly a task monkey along with Liu Feng granted but when called upon, he does quite well and during the invasion of Fan, he emerges as a somewhat intelligent figure. I don't think fair to say a trained monkey could do the job or the comparison with novel failures though yes, he is used in Fan to bring out more in other characters as well as emerging himself. He is hardly a big figure though, even in the fateful Fan camapign he is indeed one among many.

3) Why add him in the first place: DW4 added Yue Ying, 5 added Ping and Xing Cai so I would guess that koei felt 1) they had the core characters already and 2) they/their audience didn't want figures like Fa Zheng who would corrupt the eternal goodness of Shu (koei admitted their recent Fatisuma poll surprised them with the amount of controversial/dark figures that got high votes). So the Shu strategy seems to have been adding figures who could go into the Wuzhang era, young and connected to major/popular Shu figures.

Ping probably seemed a safe choice to balance out the two gambles. Son of the very popular (in the east) Guan Yu and with cultural appeal behind him, enough battles to use, a nice enough persona they can use had they wanted to (which they didn't seem to). Throw in the romance with Xing Cai as well that they decided to add. Granted, they could have had Wang Ping or someone stronger like that but think the family relations/culture won out there.

4) A mistake? Yes. The other two have had better impressions, Yue Ying for her strong first entrence even though koei has messed that up since, Xing Cai has been a master-stroke. Guan Ping is forgotten. I'm not sure koei really thought this one through, how to make him shine in his short life span and with figures like Wang Ping, Meng Da, Liu Feng and others they could have done instead, it seems a mistake.

His DW persona is nice enough (was irritating at first) but instantly forgettable, they don't really use him pre Jing and so relies on him shining a lot in one or two battles, he gets little chance to build bonds outside his family, his part in that love triangle is badly done (the idea of having one is fine, a longer living character and better execution is required) and just seems one of those characters koei does out of obligation.

What hasn't helped is koei's obsession with Guan Yu's family in recent games. Xing, Suo (and his stalker BSN), Yuanping have all been added and we wait for DW9 to announce Guan Yu's wife/butler/friend he once met. That has created a bit of a backlash in the west and further limits room for manoeuvre for Ping.
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Re: Why Guan Ping still?

Unread postby Boydie » Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:39 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:Yes koei tends to borrow novel but they do increasingly use history. Or their own imagination,...


You gonna love it when they do that though?! Lu Bu defeating both Sun Quan and Cao Cao at Chi Bi, just for the lols. Lu Bu coming back from the dead in another DW game to become even more badass! Plenty of others things like that that I actually giggled at.

Ohh how I laughed! :lol:
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Re: Why Guan Ping still?

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:45 pm

Boydie wrote: Lu Bu coming back from the dead in another DW game to become even more badass! Plenty of others things like that that I actually giggled at.

Ohh how I laughed! :lol:


I seem to recall Lu Bu coming back to life in DT2 as well :lol:
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Re: Why Guan Ping still?

Unread postby Xu Yuan » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:37 am

In that regard Dong Zhou the director for DW basically said the next two characters are going to be Xun Yu and Zhou Cang now That should be That for Guan Yu's entourage until... bah! Wait! For when they inevitably add Liao Hua! I love the fellow, but his first character arc is also going to revolve around Guan Yu...
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Re: Why Guan Ping still?

Unread postby Gray Riders » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:25 am

Sun Fin wrote:I seem to recall Lu Bu coming back to life in DT2 as well :lol:

I definitely remember that; Liu Bei defeated Zhang Lu for Liu Zhang when suddenly...Lu Bu! Who murders Liu Zhang and takes over Yi so that Liu Bei can conquer it guilt-free.

Xu Yuan wrote:Wait! For when they inevitably add Liao Hua! I love the fellow, but his first character arc is also going to revolve around Guan Yu...

Only his first character arc? I think it's plausible they'll have his character arc be about getting over Guan Yu's death.
Last edited by Gray Riders on Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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