Map of Han/Three Kingdoms China?

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Re: Map of Han/Three Kingdoms China?

Unread postby Tao Qian » Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:25 pm

I'm trying to create simplified versions of the maps of three kingdoms, and I wanted to ask what do you think about them, not so sure if they are completely accurate.
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Re: Map of Han/Three Kingdoms China?

Unread postby DragonAtma » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:43 pm

Keep in mind that some of the 190 forces (such as Kong Rong and Yuan Shao) only held a commandery or two; technically they were subservient to the provincial governors (in this case, Han Fu and Jiao He, respectively).

In 190, Liu Yu ran Youzhou. Gongsun Zan didn't fight his boss until 193.

Ma Teng's area was an alliance of small forces, althoguh the main forces were Ma Teng's Han Sui's, and Song Jian's; it would stay that way until Ma Chao's campaign, when Cao Cao conquered the area. Song Jian had the large but sparsely populated area west of Ma Teng's northwestern tip.

Wang Kuang ran Henei (the easternmost part of Dong Zhuo's lands); he was nowhere near what the 190 map says.

Sun family may have held a couple commanderies in Yang in 190, but someone else was governor and, therefore, their boss. Unfortunately, I can't remember the guy's name, as he didn't seem to be a major character (sorry).

Sun Jian was grand administrator of Changsha in 190; he supported Yuan Shu but would die the next year.

Liu Yan (and later Liu Zhang) may not have had firm control of southern Yi, but history of there is spotty (aside from Shu traipsing through the area in 225).

Yuan Shu had the northernmost part of Jing in 190; he wasn't forced out until later on.

Zhang Xian was originally one of Liu Biao's officers; he eventually rebelled, controlling Changsha, Guiyang, and Lingling. He died in 200, and his son Zhang Yi was conquered by Liu Biao.

Liu Biao originally only had some of Jing in 190 (probably the bottom two thirds of what you showed); he eventually unified the province, though.

Su Gu controlled the commandery Hanzhong in 190.

Zhang Lu served Liu Yan in 190; he did not have any territory then (but, the next year, would take hanzhong under Liu Yan). Zhang Lu was autonomous form then until 194, when Liu Zhang succeeded Liu Yan, and Zhang Lu refused to listen to him.

Shi Xie and his family ruled Jiaozhi from mid-180's to 226. He would submit to Sun Quan in 210, but stayed in charge of his lands.

In 200, Zhang Yan's bandits were greatly weakened; Yuan Shao essentially ruled the north.

Gongsun Du died in 204, so in 208 it was his son Gongsun Kang who was in charge.

The status of southern Jing in 208 was disputable. They may have been loyal to Liu Cong or to themselves (later to Liu Qi or themselves), but definitely not to Sun Quan.

Keep in mind that there may also be some people I missed; I am not omnipotent. XD
Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.
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Re: Map of Han/Three Kingdoms China?

Unread postby capnnerefir » Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:14 pm

DragonAtma wrote:Sun family may have held a couple commanderies in Yang in 190, but someone else was governor and, therefore, their boss. Unfortunately, I can't remember the guy's name, as he didn't seem to be a major character (sorry).

The Inspector of Jing during Sun Jian's term in Changsha was Wang Rui. Sun Jian killed him on the way to join Yuan Shu and he was replaced by Liu Biao.

DragonAtma wrote:Zhang Xian was originally one of Liu Biao's officers; he eventually rebelled, controlling Changsha, Guiyang, and Lingling. He died in 200, and his son Zhang Yi was conquered by Liu Biao.

Zhang Xian rebelled against Liu Biao near the end of 198. He was in alliance with Cao Cao, though he is generally considered an independent force.
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Re: Map of Han/Three Kingdoms China?

Unread postby DragonAtma » Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:01 pm

Hmm, I thought Wang Rui died in 189 (and Liu Biao was his replacement), but apparently that was in 190 -- so yeah, Wang Rui should be here, not Liu Biao.

On a side note, Huang Zu was pretty much autonomous (and controlled a chunk of Jing).
Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.
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Re: Map of Han/Three Kingdoms China?

Unread postby Jolt » Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:19 am

Also, in 208 Jing province was technically under the command of Liu Cong. And it's wrong to depict Sun Ce/Quan as dominating everything South of the river. Here's some corrections that I drew up in a minute.

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Re: Map of Han/Three Kingdoms China?

Unread postby Tao Qian » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:10 pm

Thanks!

I would need some time to figure how to solve this...

Ok, maybe part of my problem is that I was trying to make this maps to help to understand the book, so I was trying to put some characters not so important in the year. In the case of Liu Biao for example, in the book he is the only one ruling Jingzhou...

I will try to fix them today.
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Re: Map of Han/Three Kingdoms China?

Unread postby DragonAtma » Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:14 pm

Do keep in mind that the book is maybe 70% fact 30% fiction; some parts are outright false, some historical officers are completely ignored, and some book officers didn't exist at all.
Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.
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Re: Map of Han/Three Kingdoms China?

Unread postby capnnerefir » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:09 pm

Ah, if we're talking novel, then you might want to disregard anything I've said. I know next to nothing about that, so my information might not apply to your project.
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Re: Map of Han/Three Kingdoms China?

Unread postby Jolt » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:20 pm

Tao Qian wrote:Thanks!

I would need some time to figure how to solve this...

Ok, maybe part of my problem is that I was trying to make this maps to help to understand the book, so I was trying to put some characters not so important in the year. In the case of Liu Biao for example, in the book he is the only one ruling Jingzhou...

I will try to fix them today.


Here you go, based on the Romance and not on history.

I took some creative license in some parts, so it isn't the map won't be 100% accurate though.

Image

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Last edited by Jolt on Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:57 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Map of Han/Three Kingdoms China?

Unread postby capnnerefir » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:31 pm

You've always got the best maps, Jolt. One of these days, I'm going to have to start paying you for them.
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