Wu Yi and Wu Ban Biographies [ZZTJ Compilations]

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

Re: Wu Yi and Wu Ban Biographies [ZZTJ Compilations]

Unread postby Shen Ai » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:42 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:
He had Huang Quan and officers that were rising through the ranks. Lu Xun was successful becuase he waited the cautoius Liu Bei out and struck at the right moment


Huang Quan didn't get a chance to fight, did he? He got cut off and surrendered to Wei before he got involved?

Oh there was skill, but numbers and a poor formation wasn't too hard to exploit.
I've a brave warrior in my army. Shen Ai is his name, and he can slay this Hua Xiong.

Wei has no more famous commanders, Shen Ai takes lead of the vanguard!

Even a commoner on the street knows what Shen Ai is thinking!
User avatar
Shen Ai
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1903
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:21 pm
Location: That Place You've Been Dreaming Of

Re: Wu Yi and Wu Ban Biographies [ZZTJ Compilations]

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:01 pm

He was more the naval commander and adviser so yeah, didn't fight much.

I don't think formation was that poor, nobody else saw the opportunity that Lu Xun did to strike
User avatar
Dong Zhou
A-Dou
A-Dou
 
Posts: 17479
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: "Now we must die. May Your Majesty maintain yourself"

Re: Wu Yi and Wu Ban Biographies [ZZTJ Compilations]

Unread postby Xiahou Ren » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:05 am

You've raised a very interesting argument that I've failed to realize for years, Zhou.

I understand why Guandu, Yijing, Chibi, Fancheng, Jieting, and most other disastrous battle. Except for Yiling.
It's just said that "Lu Xun used fire attacks". I don't remember ever read something that states "Liu Bei set up his camp at a horrendous place" or "700 li is too scattered and hard to organize". Zhuge Liang freaked out when he saw Bei's strategy blueprint, Cao Pi thought it was terrible; surely Bei did something wrong.

Still, Liu Bei managed to hold his position on that spot for 8 months, so both statements kind of contradict each other.
It probably had something to do with the weather and season change perhaps? I don't know. Liu Bei defeat on Yiling is weird, since Liu Bei is actually quite adept on making strategic decision by himself.

Again, maybe Zhuge Liang's and Cao Pi's assessments are simply fictional.
User avatar
Xiahou Ren
Assistant
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:25 am

Re: Wu Yi and Wu Ban Biographies [ZZTJ Compilations]

Unread postby Shen Ai » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:50 am

Well setting the camps so far apart and in a linear fashion kind of messes up Liu Bei's chances, while making it easier for Lu Xun's plan to succeed. While he was smart to exploit it, his massive success hinged on an enemy screw up that wouldn't be hard to exploit, just hard to spot.

@Xiahou Ren I can't find anything that says Cao Pi and Zhuge Liang foretold Liu Bei's defeat other than Wikipedia. Only involvement Cao Pi had with anyone at Yiling was Huang Quan.
I've a brave warrior in my army. Shen Ai is his name, and he can slay this Hua Xiong.

Wei has no more famous commanders, Shen Ai takes lead of the vanguard!

Even a commoner on the street knows what Shen Ai is thinking!
User avatar
Shen Ai
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1903
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:21 pm
Location: That Place You've Been Dreaming Of

Re: Wu Yi and Wu Ban Biographies [ZZTJ Compilations]

Unread postby Xiahou Ren » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:19 am

Both assessment from SGYY.
That's why I think it's not even historical :?
I think a random spy described the arrangement to Cao Pi, and Ma Liang brought a map to Zhuge Liang.
Cao Pi snickered and Zhuge Liang said whoever came up with this plan must be beheaded.
User avatar
Xiahou Ren
Assistant
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:25 am

Re: Wu Yi and Wu Ban Biographies [ZZTJ Compilations]

Unread postby Zafar Khan » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:06 am

Shen Ai wrote:Wu Ban seems to be the only impressive general Liu Bei took with him to Yiling. No wonder Lu Xun was so successful, his competition wasn't exactly great...


I agree despite of hype the campaign of Yiling was not really great feat.

Fending off Cao Pi's invasion in 222 were more impressive to me

Some of Wei's best stocks was present as the name of Cao Xiu, Zhang Liao, Zang Ba, Xu Huang, Zhang He, Wen Pin, Cao Ren, & Cao Xiu involved.
Zafar Khan
Initiate
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:36 am

Re: Wu Yi and Wu Ban Biographies [ZZTJ Compilations]

Unread postby Bush Leagues » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:17 am

Zafar Khan wrote:I agree despite of hype the campaign of Yiling was not really great feat.

Fending off Cao Pi's invasion in 222 were more impressive to me

Some of Wei's best stocks was present as the name of Cao Xiu, Zhang Liao, Zang Ba, Xu Huang, Zhang He, Wen Pin, Cao Ren, & Cao Xiu involved.


That's a hard line-up to beat, especially considering the year.
Currently playing: Android: Netrunner LCG , Shadowrun (tabletop), and Warhammer Ancient Battle.

Pan Feng can destroy this Hua Xiong! A Han Fu ROTK IX After-Action Report.
One of the best posts ever about Pan Feng.
Bush Leagues
Scholar
 
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:12 am
Location: New Iberia. LA

Re: Wu Yi and Wu Ban Biographies [ZZTJ Compilations]

Unread postby Zafar Khan » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:33 am

Bush Leagues wrote:That's a hard line-up to beat, especially considering the year.


I'd say thats overtkill.

even Cao Cao wasnt crazy enough to bring an ensemble cast like that in Red Cliff
Zafar Khan
Initiate
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:36 am

Re: Wu Yi and Wu Ban Biographies [ZZTJ Compilations]

Unread postby Bush Leagues » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:39 am

Zafar Khan wrote:
Bush Leagues wrote:That's a hard line-up to beat, especially considering the year.


I'd say thats overtkill.

even Cao Cao wasnt crazy enough to bring an ensemble cast like that in Red Cliff


Hahaha. Yeah you'd think there would be something else going on that might demand a general or two in a rear or reserve position.

On the other hand, this was just after Liu Bei's death. So the Nanman had just risen up, right? But this would be before Yong Kai and....the other guy's defection? Either way, Wei might figure Shu is busy getting Liu Chan up to speed, re-stabilizing everything, and worrying with other domestic matters. So while Shu is busy with internal stuff, take the opportunity to get an all-star cast to try and test Wu's young general.
Currently playing: Android: Netrunner LCG , Shadowrun (tabletop), and Warhammer Ancient Battle.

Pan Feng can destroy this Hua Xiong! A Han Fu ROTK IX After-Action Report.
One of the best posts ever about Pan Feng.
Bush Leagues
Scholar
 
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:12 am
Location: New Iberia. LA

Re: Wu Yi and Wu Ban Biographies [ZZTJ Compilations]

Unread postby Zafar Khan » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:00 am

Bush Leagues wrote:
Zafar Khan wrote:
Bush Leagues wrote:That's a hard line-up to beat, especially considering the year.


I'd say thats overtkill.

even Cao Cao wasnt crazy enough to bring an ensemble cast like that in Red Cliff


Hahaha. Yeah you'd think there would be something else going on that might demand a general or two in a rear or reserve position.

On the other hand, this was just after Liu Bei's death. So the Nanman had just risen up, right? But this would be before Yong Kai and....the other guy's defection? Either way, Wei might figure Shu is busy getting Liu Chan up to speed, re-stabilizing everything, and worrying with other domestic matters. So while Shu is busy with internal stuff, take the opportunity to get an all-star cast to try and test Wu's young general.


Precisely. it can be justified by throw anything to Wu if Shu was paralyzed by Liu Bei's death.

too bad, post-rotation Wu generals was as good as their predecessors. if not because sudden illness deaths of those Wei Generals, plague(ive heard Cao Ren also affected by the plague) and Cao Pi's strategic blunder decisions,
Zafar Khan
Initiate
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:36 am

PreviousNext

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved