SGZ Biography Index & Translation Links

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Re: SGZ Biography Index & Translation Links

Unread postby Zhang Liao17 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:03 am

Does anyone have Xiahou Yuan's biography saved? The link doesn't appear to be working anymore.
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Re: SGZ Biography Index & Translation Links

Unread postby capnnerefir » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:16 am

I do, but it's on my other computer. I can upload the text somewhere just as soon as I get home and can access said computer. If someone else beats me to it...well, good for everyone, then.
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Re: SGZ Biography Index & Translation Links

Unread postby capnnerefir » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:27 pm

Here it is, the text from the old Empire Divided SGZ. I believe the translator is Jonathan Wu. This is the text exactly as it appears in the original translation, with all errors still intact.

Xiahou Yuan, styled Miaocai, was Xiahou Dun’s younger brother. When Cao Cao resided at home, he was accused of a serious crime. Xiahou Yuan took the blame. The Grand Ancestor rescued him and got him acquitted. (1) When the Grand Ancestor was recruiting soldiers he used Yuan as a major and Controller Commandant of the Cavalry. When they went to Chen Liu, he became the Grand Administer of Yinchuan. He took part in battle with Yuan Shao at Guan Du in a field command of Colonel Who Controls the army. Yuan Shao was defeated. He sent a messenger to supervise the provisions of Yanzhou, Yuzhou, and Xuzhou. When the food for the army ran low, Xiahou Yuan continued to give them food and the army was inspired. Chang Xi rebelled and Yu Jin was dispatched to attack him. He could not prevail so Xiahou Yuan was dispatched to join forces. They then attacked him. 10 villages surrendered and [Chang] Xi surrendered to Yu Jin. Xiahou Yuan returned and was appointed Colonel Who Sets Examples for the Army (2). In Jinan and Luan, the Yellow Turbans Xu He and Sima Ju attacked the city and killed the local chief. Xiahou Yuan used the soldiers of Taishan, Qi, and Pingyuan to attack. He greatly defeated them and beheaded Xu He. He pacified all the counties and he received provisions in the valley to provide for his army. In the 14th year [209], the Cao Cao attacked Sun Quan and returned. [Cao Cao] sent Xiahou Yuan to lead an army to attack the Lu Jiang rebel Lei Xu. Lei Xu was defeated. Again Xiahou Yuan attacked west to protect the army. He led Xu Huang to strike the Taishan bandits and captured over 20 villages. He beheaded the bandit leader Shang Yao and slaughtered his city. Following this he attacked Han Sui and battled in Weinan. Again he lead Zhu Ling to pacify Yumei Di [barbarians]. Together with Cao Cao he went to Anding, where Yang Qiu’s surrender was accepted.

1. Wei Lue: When Yan and Yu fell into chaos, Xiahou Yuan was starved and exhausted. He abandoned his young son and his brother’s daughter.

2. Wei Shu: Xiahou Yuan served as a General. He was very quick and swift and would frequently catch the enemy off guard. Those in the army would say, “Colonel Who Sets Examples for the Army, Xiahou Yuan: In 3 days, 500 [li?]; in 6 days, 1000 [li?].”

In the 17th year [212], Cao Cao returned to Ye. He used Xiahou Yuan to act as General Who Protects the Army and led Zhu Ling and Lu Zhao to station soldiers at Chang An. He attacked and routed Nanshan bandit Liu Xiong and his followers surrendered. Later he encircled Han Sui and Ma Chao’s former associate, Liang Xing at Hu. He captured and beheaded Liang Xing and was conferred as Marquis of Bocheng Pavilion. Ma Chao surrounded the Inspector of Liangzhou Wei Kang at Ji. Xiahou Yuan went to rescue Wei Kang but did not arrive in time, hence Wei Kang was defeated. While he was still over 200 li {t1} away from Ji, Ma Chao came out to fight in battle. [Xiahou Yuan] could not prevail. The Di rebelled and Xiahou Yuan led his army to return. In the 19th year [214], Zhao Qu and Yin Feng schemed to punish Ma Chao. Jiang Xi recruited soldiers from Lu City to respond to them. Zhao Qu ticked Ma Chao by persuading him to go out. He attacked Jiang Xu but [Zhao Qu] killed Ma Chao’s wife [and family]. Ma Chao fleed to Han Zhong and returned to surround Qishan. Jiang Xu became worried and sent a pleas for assistance. Many officers wanted to wait for orders from Cao Cao. Xiahou Yuan said, “The Duke is in Ye. It is four thousand li there and back. Jiang Xu and his forces will be destroyed before any report can reach him. We simply must attack quickly" He forthwith sent Zhang He to lead 5,000 men and horses forward. Xiahou Yuan himself supervised provisions and the rear. Zhang He arrived at the Wei river and Ma Chao used several thousand the Di and Qiang tribesman to oppose him. They did not yet fight when Ma Chao fled. Zhang He’s army moved to collect his equipment. By the time Xiahou Yuan arrived the regions had surrendered. Han Sui was located in Xianqin and Xiahou Yuan wanted to attack him. Han Sui fled. Xiahou Yuan collected Han Sui’s army provisions and he pursued to plunder Yuelang City. He was 20 li behind Han Sui. Many generals wanted to attack him [Han Sui] or attack the Di barbarians at Xingguo. Xiahou Yuan considered Han Sui’s soldiers to be well trained and Xingguo walls strong and would not fall quickly. He thought that the best plan would be to attack the Qiang at Changli. There were many Qiang were located in Han Sui’s army. They would certainly leave to protect their home. It appeared as though the Qiang were left alone to guard Zegu. If they came out they could be defeated in open ground and defeated. Xiahou Yuan thereupon left a general to guard military supplies and a light brigade of soldiers and cavalry to Changli. They attacked and burned the Qiang villages. He beheaded and captured great numbers. The Qiang in Han Sui’s army acted as expected. Han Sui was forced to try and rescue Changli. When his army approached Xiahou Yuan’s army, the various generals saw his force and became worried. They suggested that a moat and stockade be built around the city and only then take part in battle. Xiahou Yuan said, “We have marched and counter-marched a thousand li. If we start building and digging, our soldiers will become exhausted and useless. Although the bandits are many, they can easily be dealt with." He thereupon beat the drums and Han Sui’s army was greatly defeated and took his banner. He returned to Lueyang and advanced to surround Xingguo. The King of the Di and many thousands fled to Ma Chao. Many Di men surrendered. [Xiahou Yuan] shifted to attack the Chuge in Gaoping and in all cases they were scattered. He harvested his provisions in the valley and collected oxen and horses. Thereupon Xiahou Yuan was given Jie.

Earlier, Song Jian of the Fuhan used the disorder in Liangzhou to name himself King. Cao Cao sent a messenger to tell Xiahou Yuan to lead all generals to punish Song Jian. He arrived there and surrounded the Fuhan. Within a moon he prevailed. Song Jian was beheaded and [Xiahou Yuan] installed a leader for the Fuhan. Xiahou Yuan leaves and dispatched Zhang He to go to Pinghe Pass and then cross the He River to enter Xiaohuang. West of the He River many exhausted Qiang surrendered so that Longyou was pacified. Cao Cao issued an order saying, “Song Jian caused disorder for 30 years. Xiahou Yuan with one stroke exterminated him. Hubu pass is safe and we cannot be defeated. Confucious said, ‘I cannot do as well as you’.” In the 21st year [216], [Xiahou Yuan]’s fief increased 300 households to combine with his previous 800 households [bringing the total to 1,100 households]. He returned to attack the Di and Qiang of Wudu. He accepted the Di 10 villages and 10,000 pecks of rice. Cao Cao launched a western campaign against Zhang Lu. Xiahou Yuan was to lead the various general of Liangzhou. Whenever Cao Cao saw the Di or Qiang tribes he used Xiahou Yuan’s name to scare them. When Zhang Lu surrendered and Hanzhong was pacified Xiahou Yuan General Controller-Protector of the Army in addition to commanding over Zhang He, Xu Huang, and the Pingba region. Cao Cao returned to Ye, left Xiahou Yuan to guard Hanzhong and appointed him as General-in-Chief Who Conquers the West. In the 23rd year [218], Liu Bei closed off Yangping. Xiahou Yuan led his forces to oppose him. They entrenched for consecutive years. In the 1st month of the 24th year [219], Liu Bei at night set fires around Lujiao. Xiahou Yuan sent Zhang He to protect the eastern defences and he himself to protect the southern ones. Liu Bei’s army battled Zhang He but Zhang He’s army could not prevail. Xiahou Yuan divided his force to assist Zhang He. Liu Bei launched a raid on his army and Xiahou Yuan died in battle. He was given the posthumous title of Marquis of Min.

At first, although Xiahou Yuan was frequently successful [in battle], Cao Cao warned him saying, “The commander of an army should sometimes be timid and weak; you cannot rely merely upon your courage. The commander takes courage as the basis, but he must always act wisely and with forethought. If he thinks only of physical bravery, a common fellow can match him."

Xiahou Yuan was married to Cao Cao’s younger sister. His eldest son, Xiahou Heng married a niece of Cao Cao. Xiahou Heng inherited nobility and was conferred as the Marquis of Anning Pavilion. During the Huang Chu period [220-226] rank was conferred on his second son Xiahou Ba. During the Tai He period [227-232], Xiahou Ba’s 4 brothers were given nobility and in all cases conferred as minor Marquises. During the Zheng Shi period [240-248], he was sent on a punitive expedition against Shu as General of the Right and Protector of the Army. He advanced to be conferred as Marquis of Bochang Pavilion. He was friendly with Cao Shuag. When he heard Cao Shuang had been executed he became suspicious and decided to go to Shu instead of facing death. Later Xiahou Yuan’s accomplishments to the state were used as justification to pardon Xiahou Ba’s son. He moved to Yuelang region. Xiahou Ba had a younger brother Xiahou Wei who became the Inspector of Yanzhou. (3) Xiahou Wei’s younger brother Xiahou Hui, was the Grand Administer of Luean. (4) Xiahou Hui’s younger brother Xiahou He, was the Intendant of Henan (5) Xiahou Heng died and his son Xiahou Ji succeeded him. Xiahou Ji served as General of the Gentleman of the Household of the Energetic Tigers. Xiahou Ji died and his son Xiahou Bao succeeded him.

3. This Passage has been translated at the 3Frontier.net. It is a biogrpahy of Xiahou Ba.
4. Shi Yu: Xiahou Wei styled Jiquan was chivalrous. He served as Inspector of Yanzhou and Jingzhou. His [eldest] son, Xiahou Jun, was the inspector of Bingzhou. His next son Xiahou Zhuang was the Grand Administrator of Huainan. Xiahou Zhuang’s son, Xiahou Zhan styled Xiaorou, was a good writer. He became the Chancellor of Xiangyang and the Chief Clerk of Sanqi. Xiahou Wei’s youger brother, Xiahou Hui, was the Grand Administer of Luean.

Wenzhang Quelu: Xiahou Hui styled Zhiqian, was very talented and learned at a young age. When he served as a Gentleman in Attendance of the Yellow Gates at Sanqi he would frequently debate with Zhong Yu. Later he was promoted to Chancellor of Yan and Grand Administer of Luean. He died at the age of 37.

5. Shi Yu: Xiahou He styled Yiqian, was learned of the history. He eventually became the Intendant of Henan and Grand Master of Ceremonies. Xiahou Yuan’s 3rd son was Xiahou Chen, and his fifth son was Xiahou Rong.

Cong Sun Zhan Wei Qi Xu: Xiahou Chen was styled Shuquan. [The rest of this passage can be found here in the biography section] His younger brother Xiahou Rong was styled Youquan. [The rest of this passage can be found here in the biography section]
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Re: SGZ Biography Index & Translation Links

Unread postby Zhang Liao17 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:07 am

A very interesting read. Thanks for your help. It sounds like Xiahou Yuan was a very successful general in history as well, more so than Xiahou Dun, who often gets more credit in the games, etc.
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Re: SGZ Biography Index & Translation Links

Unread postby jiuyangda » Sun May 22, 2016 3:07 pm

I've started my own series of translations, and am looking for others to criticize and point out any errors.

https://xuesanguo.tumblr.com/

One of my motivations for doing this is because I am bothered by the fact that there are serious errors in some translations (for example, in the above translation of Xiahou Yuan, "He abandoned his young son and his brother’s daughter" should be "He abandoned his young son in order to save his late brother's daughter") that are difficult to notice because the source text is not available to cross-reference the translation. Therefore my philosophy is to provide the source text with each translation to make it easier to detect these errors.

However, I require other sets of eyes to make these cross-reference checks, and so ask for help from anyone who can give it here.
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Re: SGZ Biography Index & Translation Links

Unread postby Lord_Cao_Cao » Sun May 22, 2016 3:29 pm

Nice work.
I've only read Ren Jun's bio and have a suggestion. If you use names like Taizu, I'd add for example a note that it's Cao Cao or write it after the first mention of the name. Just so that those who aren't familiar with these special names know who the name refers to.
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Re: SGZ Biography Index & Translation Links

Unread postby DragonAtma » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:24 pm

I have been informed that, on Wikipedia, there's an english translation of Wang Xiu [Wei 11]'s SGZ bio (minus the comments): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Xiu_(Han_dynasty) .

Yes, I realize that some people whine and moan when they hear people mention wikipedia, but based on a quick look at the original bio (via google translate) it seems that the translation is fine.
Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.
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Re: SGZ Biography Index & Translation Links

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:47 am

DragonAtma wrote:I have been informed that, on Wikipedia, there's an english translation of Wang Xiu [Wei 11]'s SGZ bio (minus the comments): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Xiu_(Han_dynasty) .

Yes, I realize that some people whine and moan when they hear people mention wikipedia, but based on a quick look at the original bio (via google translate) it seems that the translation is fine.


When you joined four years ago (holy cow!) it was still considered a questionable source. But much like opinions on Shu as people go from the novel to history, opinions on it seems to have course-corrected a bit.
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Re: SGZ Biography Index & Translation Links

Unread postby capnnerefir » Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:35 pm

Zyzyfer wrote:
DragonAtma wrote:I have been informed that, on Wikipedia, there's an english translation of Wang Xiu [Wei 11]'s SGZ bio (minus the comments): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Xiu_(Han_dynasty) .

Yes, I realize that some people whine and moan when they hear people mention wikipedia, but based on a quick look at the original bio (via google translate) it seems that the translation is fine.


When you joined four years ago (holy cow!) it was still considered a questionable source. But much like opinions on Shu as people go from the novel to history, opinions on it seems to have course-corrected a bit.

It helps that Wikipedia has actually made an effort to clean up its act regarding 3K. When you go to create or edit an article, there's a prompt stressing the difference between historical sources and fictional ones (specifically mentioning the Yanyi). That's improved things quite a bit.

Obviously, still don't trust unsourced information, but that goes for everything on Wikipedia.
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