BBC: Liu Bei: China's warlord who teaches good management

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BBC: Liu Bei: China's warlord who teaches good management

Unread postby Ah-Man » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:02 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19897371

An interesting read. Again Wu gets pushed aside and ignored :lol:
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Re: BBC: Liu Bei: China's warlord who teaches good managemen

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:45 am

Bah Cao Cao would make more sense for the article. Liu Bei would be great for representing raw charisma or perseverance but leadership? Liu Bei and Cao Cao were equally crafty there (so was Sun Quan) but the novel doesn't show that side of Liu Bei so much and Sun Quan's craftiness is far more subtle in nature. As for delegating responsibility to the right people I'd say both Cao and Sun outclass Liu there. But no, focus was on Red Cliffs and few see Sun Quan as a hero... :roll:

Anyway, it's cool to see TK stuff in the news regardless!
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Re: BBC: Liu Bei: China's warlord who teaches good managemen

Unread postby Jordan » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:55 am

"This is the first time that an imperial collapse has happened with a power vacuum ensuing," explains Frances Wood, curator of the East Asia collection at the British Library.

"The Han had overthrown the Qin [dynasty]. That was a straightforward regime change, if you like.


What the hell am I reading?
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Re: BBC: Liu Bei: China's warlord who teaches good managemen

Unread postby Qu Hui » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:44 pm

Jordan wrote:
"This is the first time that an imperial collapse has happened with a power vacuum ensuing," explains Frances Wood, curator of the East Asia collection at the British Library.

"The Han had overthrown the Qin [dynasty]. That was a straightforward regime change, if you like.


What the hell am I reading?

Yeah, this article isn't very good. Ignoring the fact that a good chunk of the things it credits Liu Bei et al for are either fictional or misattributed, that sort of factual inaccuracy regarding the Liu Bang-Xiang Yu conflict is just unforgivable.
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Re: BBC: Liu Bei: China's warlord who teaches good managemen

Unread postby TigerTally » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:53 pm

I certainly appreciate the effort the author made to encourage more people to read RoTK, but I somewhat doubt she (and that Frances Wood) had really read through the whole book.

BTW, the first two pictures seem to be from Japan, and the very first one does not really look like it is about 3K period.
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Re: BBC: Liu Bei: China's warlord who teaches good managemen

Unread postby Lady Wu » Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:50 pm

Hahaha, I hadn't even noticed the Japanese paintings.

Well, when I first read the title, I thought it's going to be another one of those "Liu Bei is about being kind to the people" pieces of drivel. Fortunately it turned out otherwise. It's a strange article, though--like Zyzyfer said, the Liu Bei in the novel certainly isn't the best role model out there for good management, and certainly in the Chinese consciousness he is not a symbol of such, either.

The "straightforward regime change" wording was really unfortunate, but I do think that there's a fundamental difference between the Qin/Chu/Han war and the Three Kingdoms. The Chu-Han war was all of what, 5 years? It was poised to be a regime change, from Qin to Chu. Sure, the Qin Empire collapsed, but the imperial ideology did not collapse. Both Liu Bang and Xiang Yu were actively trying to unify the land and restore imperial rule. In contrast, the Three Kingdoms was an extended time of territorial division, and for the first time since the Warring States people had to negotiate the meaning of legitimate rule and what it meant to be an empire (cf. Deng Zhi's mission to Wu).
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Re: BBC: Liu Bei: China's warlord who teaches good managemen

Unread postby plunged » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:18 am

Though the article isnt very good I think it's nice that they dedicate some time and space to Sanguo.

TigerTally wrote:BTW, the first two pictures seem to be from Japan, and the very first one does not really look like it is about 3K period.


Those two are indeed Japanese, from 19th century artist Tsukioka Yoshitoshi.
Last edited by plunged on Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: BBC: Liu Bei: China's warlord who teaches good managemen

Unread postby Ranbir » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:39 pm

Articles are just prefaces for the radio shows, listen to them instead: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01nbryc
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Re: BBC: Liu Bei: China's warlord who teaches good managemen

Unread postby TigerTally » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:46 pm

The radio added reference to the card game Three Kingdoms Kill as well as a tale about Cao Cao, namely the borrow-your-head one, not to mention many sound effects and background musics. Both the radio and article, however, did not really tell much about Liu Bei himself lol (at least the card game was mentioned even more).

BTW I don't really get why wearing trousers, skirt-like scarf around his waist, a sleeveless jacket and armour over his chest, his hair long curled up in a bun and fastening with silk scarves or a jade band would make one "an impressive figure". If there were any elements that made Liu Bei look nice in terms of appearance, that should be his large ears and long arms that could reach his knees.
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Re: BBC: Liu Bei: China's warlord who teaches good managemen

Unread postby Shen Ai » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:39 pm

Ah-Man wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19897371

An interesting read. Again Wu gets pushed aside and ignored :lol:



In all fairness, it is Wu. I mean, if I was just reporting or writing an article on the Three Kingdoms with limited knowledge, I would ignore them as well.
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