Wu's destiny

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Re: Wu's destiny

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:12 pm

Yes and I'm not sure
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
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Re: Wu's destiny

Unread postby Ah-Man » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:56 pm

Then does that mean Huang Hao wasn't as bad as the novel/pop culture made him out to be, because I've always thought of Zhan as a rather upright guy... or maybe Zhan wasn't sa nice as I thought he was as I do recall Chen Shou held a grudge against him (for what reasons I don't know).
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Re: Wu's destiny

Unread postby Crazedmongoose » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:27 pm

Ah-Man wrote:Then does that mean Huang Hao wasn't as bad as the novel/pop culture made him out to be, because I've always thought of Zhan as a rather upright guy... or maybe Zhan wasn't sa nice as I thought he was as I do recall Chen Shou held a grudge against him (for what reasons I don't know).



It was more Zhan wasn't as good as the novel made him out to be (though when duty called he did die in service of his country).

Huang Hao was pretty bad, but then the argument could be made that he wasn't as bad as the novel because in the novel he was depicted as the primary reason of Shu's fall, where as in real life I'm sure the blame should be split between him and Jiang Wei.
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Re: Wu's destiny

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:46 am

Liked CrazedMoongoose says, Zhuge Zhan was not a good man. Intelligent but morality was not considered one of his strong suits.

Huang Hao didn't go around killing people so I think his treatment, that and being the sole guy rather then part of 3, is somewhat harsh. He was certainly a corrupt man though
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Re: Wu's destiny

Unread postby Ah-Man » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:47 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:Liked CrazedMoongoose says, Zhuge Zhan was not a good man. Intelligent but morality was not considered one of his strong suits.

Huang Hao didn't go around killing people so I think his treatment, that and being the sole guy rather then part of 3, is somewhat harsh. He was certainly a corrupt man though


Reading through Zhuge Zhan's SGZ here on KMA, it doesn't seem to mention anything particularly bad about Zhan except that compared to his old man, he has a simplistic imagination and often took credit for things he didn't do (whether it was intentional or not). What did he do that was so bad? And does anybody know why there was tension between him and Chen Shou?
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Re: Wu's destiny

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:50 pm

He protected Huang Hao as one of the senior officials.

I wasn't aware there was tension between the two.
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Re: Wu's destiny

Unread postby Ah-Man » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:02 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:He protected Huang Hao as one of the senior officials.

I wasn't aware there was tension between the two.

I recall that Lady wrote up a nice little summary on Chen's bio that mentioned it... let me dig it out.....

http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22090#p560864 Found it!
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Re: Wu's destiny

Unread postby jiang cheng » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:20 am

In Lu Su's own version of Long Zhong Plan is a three kingdoms with Liu Biao and Cao Cao (note that Liu Bei was not established during after Guan Du.) His own plan was that if there are any crisis either on Liu Biao or Cao Cao, they will moved up to destroy either party.

When both other sides had nothing happen, they will strengthened their army, improved on relationship with the natives and also to open up their commerce system.

If not for Sun Quan gone senile in his older years and his successor is a tyrant, Wu would have last longer.
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Re: Wu's destiny

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:08 pm

I thought Quan's immediate successor was a puppet under tyrant regents rather then a tyrant himself?
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Re: Wu's destiny

Unread postby Tokugawa Liang » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:54 pm

Did Wu go as far down as actual Thailand?
English is not my mother tongue. I hope the comprehension isn't too hard.

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