now based on the 1st point, there is no way that he could have known all that happened during northern campaigns
2. he is believed to be chen shi's son whom was punished by zhuge liang at one point during his service
3. chen shou in the end was a jin historian
can anyone helped me explain why he is hated so much by alot of people? is it because of what luo guanzhong did on his novel?
Elitemsh wrote:His failure in Jie Ting may not simply be the mistake in appointing Ma Su but could also be his lack of eagerness to truly lead the front himself. Given it was such an important battle, if he was a skilled, experienced commander then he shouldn't have it taken it upon himself. ...
Elitemsh wrote:Zhuge Liang was left behind because he wasn't needed for the battle at Hanzhong despite Liu Bei mobilising all his men for this battle. IMO if Zhuge Liang was a very gifted general then he would have been brought along too because this battle was incredibly important. This may stand as evidence that Chen Shou's analysis of Zhuge Liang was fair and he was more of a brilliant politican than a general. That being said Zhuge Liang's rearguard actions were really impressive (at least to me) and that could be a specific skill that he had. However, he still does not come close to Liu Bei, Zhang Fei and Zhao Yun who seemed like much better generals in my view.
Chan Zilong wrote:did you mean zhuge should have lead the troop himself? also i'm not too familiar with the entire map but to my believe, jieting is behind of where the main camp was? i meant jieting is closer to to hanzhong and not the front line? and the front line is the most dangerous place to be and that is where zhuge is suppose to be at? please do correct me if i'm wrong
Elitemsh wrote:Well i do question why he wasn't leading the battle. I question the need to appoint a subordinate to defend against Zhang He. Why not simply do it himself? That's the difference between him and Liu Bei.
Chan Zilong wrote:
if someone hates zhuge liang due to the novel like you stated, shouldn't they know that it is the a novel, no novel though based on any history is 100% accurate like the actual history is, there is always a fabrication to please the reader and writer's point of view is usually added in it
and though zhuge liang considered failed at his northern campaigns (failed to capture chang an and lou yang) sima yi himself with superiror force and supplies were not able to rout zhuge liang and subdue shu, so this shows that zhuge himself is one of the best there is at their time
if one is overly rated, i would say that has to be jiang wei
and also this is out of topic but been bugging me for a long time, how come after the first generation (i meant dong zhuo era) there are no general that can be considered as powerful generals anymore?
one thing i don't like about zhuge liang is that he play favouritism heavily (zhao yun and ma su), in my opinion if he treated wei yan better, he might not betray shu (of course this is arguable). i mean after zhao yun's death who is the strongest general that shu has that is proven in battle and has a bold courage? not even zhang fei and guan yu's son can match him
and i believe he is stronger than any wei general that is alive at that time (with exception maybe zhang he) but then again you can't win with brute force
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