Cao Cao's Top 5 Generals Poll

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Re: Cao Cao's Top 5 Generals Poll

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:48 am

Yeah the Wuhuan and Yuan cases, Cao Chun was big in them. His short record is unfortunate but he seemed to play an integral role for his time and it unfortunately gets overshadowed.

Can't believe I forgot Cao Ren though.

Like others, I can't see any replacements for the Wei five. People mention Yu Jin, his surrender dinged him and I don't know a huge amount about him, but his handling of Zhang Xiu was impressive.
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Re: Cao Cao's Top 5 Generals Poll

Unread postby Crazedmongoose » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:07 am

Everything suggested before he lost his army to a freak flash flood, he (Yu Jin) was an exceptional general.

I'd be more willing to replace Yue Jin (who was just a great officer) for Cao Ren.
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Re: Cao Cao's Top 5 Generals Poll

Unread postby Shen Ai » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:09 am

Zhang Liao
Cao Ren
Xu Huang
Yue Jin
Zhang He


Does Cao Cao count as a general?
I've a brave warrior in my army. Shen Ai is his name, and he can slay this Hua Xiong.

Wei has no more famous commanders, Shen Ai takes lead of the vanguard!

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Re: Cao Cao's Top 5 Generals Poll

Unread postby Crazedmongoose » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:53 am

Yeah it should be said that Cao Cao and Liu Bei were probably the best commanders by a long shot in Cao Cao and Liu Bei's factions.
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Re: Cao Cao's Top 5 Generals Poll

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:01 am

Yang Dayang wrote:
Defeating Liu Bei twice, Guan Yu and Su Fei, Gao Gan, northern pirates and participating in many of Cao Cao's battle is decent enough for me, not to mention He Fei. The thing is with Yu Jin is that he was rarely given independent command and was mostly fighting under Cao Cao's direct command. As I said, both are awesome but I think very highly of Yue Jin because I think he was given harder tasks.


I never said he sucked. :wink: I can't believe I forgot to mention Gao Gan

I do think Yu Jin got plenty of independent commands but yes, some of his best moments were in rearguard conditions.
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Re: Cao Cao's Top 5 Generals Poll

Unread postby PhoenixRising » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:06 am

Dong Zhou wrote:I do think Yu Jin got plenty of independent commands but yes, some of his best moments were in rearguard conditions.


Yups, when comes on it he is surrendered to Guan Yu which is so contrary to his previous reputation as a valiant warrior.

By the way, no one vote for Pang De? :P
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Re: Cao Cao's Top 5 Generals Poll

Unread postby Sima Yi 77 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:45 am

I'm a big Pang De fan I wrote prior in my post about him great record with other warlords if he would have survived Fancheng he would of most likely collected more victories and made my top 5 list for sure.
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Re: Cao Cao's Top 5 Generals Poll

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:39 am

PhoenixRising wrote:
Yups, when comes on it he is surrendered to Guan Yu which is so contrary to his previous reputation as a valiant warrior.

By the way, no one vote for Pang De? :P


Sure, massacring your men may have been the valiant warrior thing to do but it isn't what a leader of men should do

Pang De is an overatted man personally and let's be fair, he serves Cao Cao once.
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Re: Cao Cao's Top 5 Generals Poll

Unread postby PhoenixRising » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:30 am

Dong Zhou wrote:Pang De is an overatted man personally and let's be fair, he serves Cao Cao once.


Hmm i thinks his career also brilliant. Here is when he serves Ma Teng and Ma Teng serves Cao Cao (or Han perhaps i dunno)
Pang De Bio, Chen Shou

In the middle of Rebuilt Tranquility (III) (middle of Jian An), Tai Zu (Cao Cao) led a punitive expedition on Yuan Tan, Yuan Shang at Li Yang. Yuan Tan dispatched Guo Yuan and Gao Gan to await the obtainment of He Dong. [Cao Cao] sent out Zhong Yao to lead several generals at the pass. Pang De and Ma Teng’s son – Ma Chao defended against Guo Yuan while Gao Gan was at Ping Yang. Pang De as the vanguard, advanced to attack Guo Yuan and Gao Gan. After decimating their armies, he personally beheaded Guo Yuan.

Not bad! act as a vanguard and behead the enemy leader :P

Afterwards, Zhang Bai Qi rebelled at Hong Nong to which Pang De followed Ma Teng to suppress. Breaking through Zhang Bai Qi’s lines didn’t take long. Each battle, he exhibited a fierce display that caused the enemy to retreat.

Truly a valiant leader, capable breaking enemy lines and fierce doing battle :wink:

Hou Yin and Wei Kai rebelled at Wan. Pang De led all his followers along with Cao Ren to crush the rebellion at Wan. After executing Hou Yin and Wei Kai, thereupon he was stationed southward at Fan to face Guan Yu. The generals in Fan knew Pang De’s older brother was in Han Zhong so they were suspicious (3). [Pang] De replied casually: “I have received the bounty of the state. Under righteousness I should die [for the state (referring to Wei), thus repaying the debt]. I desire to personally attack Guan Yu. This year [referring to the upcoming battle] if I don’t kill this Guan Yu, then he shall kill me.”

His loyalty beyond doubts :mrgreen:

The generals Dong Heng, Dong Chao and others desired to surrender [to Guan Yu]. Pang De executed all of them. The battle started at dawn and lasted past mid-day. Guan Yu pressed the attack despite the arrows being now depleted and lacking in troops. Pang De told the du jiang Cheng He: “I have heard that the virtuous general does not fear death. The ardent soldier doesn’t ruin his name in order to live. This day… is the day of my death.”

The battle had worsened and the waters were overfilling. Most of the officers and soldiers had surrendered. Pang De and only the standard bearer (hui xia jiang) were left.


Only killing some traitors who tend to defect and leaving their post. Cao Cao do the same while trying to capture Shou Chun. :P

When [Cao Cao] heard of this, he was deeply sorrowed.

This shows how valuable he is.

I see Pang De can be put as one of Wei's top generals.
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Re: Cao Cao's Top 5 Generals Poll

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:50 am

He was a good vanguard general yes but his reputation is too high for his deeds in my opinion. The manner of death means he gets inflated
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