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Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:49 am
by the hidden dragon
forget abt novel's Zhuge Liang and how he pwned Zhou Yu. but in actual fact, Zhou yu who was also a competent battle field general, is way ahead of Zhugeliang..
I believe he was the most complete persona in the 3 kingdom.

others i could have thought of are;

1- sima Yi
2 - Lu Xun? Or he just a plain scholar like Zhugeliang
3 - Lu Kang

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:56 am
by Mitsunari
Zhou Yu would be in my Top 3, but personally I wouldn't put Sima Yi in the 'greatest all-round' strategist category, his forte lay predominantly in political expertise much like Kongming.

Mao Jie is one I'd consider a great 'all-rounder' too, maybe someone like Deng Ai too?

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:01 am
by Sun Fin
I wouldn't consider Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist. Hell I no longer really consider Zhou Yu a strategist, more a commander who can see the strategic importance of certain events. If I was to go for greatest strategist of the period I'd probably back Jia Xu.

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:18 am
by Mitsunari
Sun Fin wrote:I wouldn't consider Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist. Hell I no longer really consider Zhou Yu a strategist, more a commander who can see the strategic importance of certain events. If I was to go for greatest strategist of the period I'd probably back Jia Xu.


I think the topic is mainly about 'all-round' characters, mate - like, strategists who are more than just strategists, so to speak.

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:26 am
by Dong Zhou
Is Zhou Yu an all rounder? Yes he did some civil service and he was a skilled, intelligent commander but what else? He wasn't a strategist, more a man who knew how to use other's peoples advice, he wasn't a senior administrator, rarely strayed into political or civil adviser.

Cao Cao and Zhuge Liang are two strong all rounders, Zhu Ran maybe?

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:27 am
by Sun Fin
Yeah hence why I said I no longer consider him a strategist :P

I just don't see him fulfilling the role of a classic 3K strategist!

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:46 am
by Shen Ai
Lu Meng is the greatest military mind, as well as Cao Cao, who was an all rounder. Sima Yi was talented in civil and military duties. Zhou Yu was an excellent commander and a competent politician, but not the greatest at the time.

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:25 pm
by Vitruvius
So all round includes politics, troop command, battle field tactics and overall strategizing?

Cao Cao is the greatest. Followed by Lu Xun, Sima Yi and Zhuge Liang. I don't think Zhou Yu, Lu Meng etc are good at politics. I don't think Jia Xu etc are good at commanding troops on the field.

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:13 pm
by Shen Ai
Hmmm, Lu Xun is no doubt talented, but his political abilities are overestimated as are his military command compared to people like Zhuge Liang and Lu Meng. Lu Xun involved himself in the petty war for succession between two princes and paid the price with lifetime exile. He was not a subtle man.
Lu Meng is one of the greatest strategists of the time. He was a leader and a warrior as well as a clever man. He captured Jing without a fight almost and he supplied Zhou Yu with a great many plans for battle.
Zhou Yu is a highly skilled admiral, if you could call it that for the time, and a very brave, loyal man.He mentored Lu Su and allegedly Lu Meng as well and took advice from his men very well, unlike some generals who just execute them. Like Lu Xun and Fa Jun.
Jia Xu is in my opinion, THE greatest strategist of the era. He never gave bad advice and his strategies brought great success to all who followed them. He was not a battle field commander but rather an adviser. Either way, he had a way of maintaining his calm during tense situations and had a shrewd, able mind.
Sima Yi is highly skilled defensively. A very able politician who was able to steal power from the most powerful of kingdoms and leave his legacy in control of it.
Zhuge Liang, despite the hype and criticisms of him, is a very talented man. A talented strategist and a great governor, who did most of Liu Shan's work for him, Kongming was and is, in my opinion very deserving of his reputation.
Cao Cao was the most talented overall, with superb political skills, charisma, cunning, military skill and a pretty decent judge of character.

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:22 pm
by Sun Fin
I would have to say that 'best overall' would have to be Cao Cao; as painful as I find it to admit it. ZGL would comes a close second. I think Zhou Yu, Sima Yi, Liu Bei are all reasonable second tier candidates. I also reckon that if he'd lived longer Sun Ce would have been up there :P