Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postby Garfunkel » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:03 pm

They succeeded with every army they fielded though they didn't personally lead many.
User avatar
Garfunkel
Student
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:15 am

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postby Shen Ai » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:35 pm

Garfunkel wrote:They succeeded with every army they fielded though they didn't personally lead many.

And they fought lesser opponents. My opinion, but Zhuge Ke and Jiang Wei are really no match for people like Zhou Yu, Zhuge Liang, Gan Ning, Lu Meng, Zhang Liao and the other elite generals. There other victories were mainly civil disputes and those were handled mainly because the traitors were betrayed by others. Talented administrators and politicians and charismatic men, but far from the greatest strategists. Guo Huai and Deng Ai and even Zhong Hui defended the west for them and the east was held up by Sima Zhou, Wang Jun and Zhuge Dan. In a political battle, their father did half the job. Most of the job actually, they just picked up on little pieces and put them together. Cao Pi could handle them politically and countless others could beat them in a fair battle.
I've a brave warrior in my army. Shen Ai is his name, and he can slay this Hua Xiong.

Wei has no more famous commanders, Shen Ai takes lead of the vanguard!

Even a commoner on the street knows what Shen Ai is thinking!
User avatar
Shen Ai
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1903
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:21 pm
Location: That Place You've Been Dreaming Of

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postby Garfunkel » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:48 pm

Shen Ai wrote:
Garfunkel wrote:They succeeded with every army they fielded though they didn't personally lead many.

And they fought lesser opponents. My opinion, but Zhuge Ke and Jiang Wei are really no match for people like Zhou Yu, Zhuge Liang, Gan Ning, Lu Meng, Zhang Liao and the other elite generals. There other victories were mainly civil disputes and those were handled mainly because the traitors were betrayed by others. Talented administrators and politicians and charismatic men, but far from the greatest strategists. Guo Huai and Deng Ai and even Zhong Hui defended the west for them and the east was held up by Sima Zhou, Wang Jun and Zhuge Dan. In a political battle, their father did half the job. Most of the job actually, they just picked up on little pieces and put them together. Cao Pi could handle them politically and countless others could beat them in a fair battle.


But that's the point, to find a balance of both. There were better generals, and there were better statesmen. But few were better at both together.
User avatar
Garfunkel
Student
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:15 am

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postby Shen Ai » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:51 pm

That I can agree with. Cao Cao and Lu Xun are really the only too and may be Zhuge Liang and Liu Bei as well, that I can think off that had true talent. And most messed up in the end.
I've a brave warrior in my army. Shen Ai is his name, and he can slay this Hua Xiong.

Wei has no more famous commanders, Shen Ai takes lead of the vanguard!

Even a commoner on the street knows what Shen Ai is thinking!
User avatar
Shen Ai
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1903
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:21 pm
Location: That Place You've Been Dreaming Of

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postby Striga » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:17 am

Cao Cao was the greatest politician, and a great strategist. Lu Xun came in too late, but was an able politician and strategist. Liu Bei was purely a politician who was based on "morals" and his "royal blood". Zhuge Liang was a great strategist, but controlled to small a population to outfight Cao Cao's army even after Cao Cao died.
"Immense power is fun! You should try it sometime." -Syndra (favourite quote XD)
User avatar
Striga
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:23 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postby GuoBia » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:32 am

Are the "morals" for Liu Bei in sarcastic quotation marks or quoting quotation marks?

Whatever bad we can say about Liu Bei, he was definitely a showman with extraordinary charisma, if he can still get and retain support after loss after loss... After... Loss...
Guo run! Guo run!!!!
User avatar
GuoBia
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1155
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 7:11 am
Location: For the Southlands!

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postby Hyper90 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:34 am

an off topic here...

liu bei can be a good actor in our modern days :lol:
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die. " Sima Yi

take a look please
User avatar
Hyper90
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1577
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:20 pm

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:21 am

Liu Bei is a pretty good choice, an ok strategist, probably not much of an administrator but an able governor, a very good commander, a political genius and very very very charismatic.
User avatar
Dong Zhou
A-Dou
A-Dou
 
Posts: 16793
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: "Now we must die. May Your Majesty maintain yourself"

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postby Hyper90 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:28 am

isnt it odd when the topic says about zhou yu and we are talking someone else already from post 1...

and about liu bei's charismatic-ness, how do we compare him to today's modern figures? anyone you can pick :mrgreen:
i would like to know
"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die. " Sima Yi

take a look please
User avatar
Hyper90
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 1577
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:20 pm

Re: Zhou Yu the greatest all round strategist?

Unread postby Mitsunari » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:08 pm

Again, I did mention Liu Bei earlier in the thread...

This is the problem isn't it, when history becomes 'diluted' by novelizations and contemporary videogames, people like Zhou Yu are wrongly assumed to be strategists by trade...and conversely, those like Liu Bei aren't given enough credit for their strategical know-how.

Generally, as we've seen, many people from the 3k period were versatile and multi-talented, so to speak, and thus to pigeon-hole them erroneously is a tad ignorant. Which I myself have been guilty of, in some cases.
''Even through the darkest of days, this fire burns, always...''
User avatar
Mitsunari
Akaoni of the Red Fire Unit
 
Posts: 1217
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:08 pm
Location: Facing the hoardes of Darkness, with a sword in my hand and a fire in my heart...

PreviousNext

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved