Why Luo Guanzong made Lu Bu so powerful?

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Why Luo Guanzong made Lu Bu so powerful?

Unread postby Xiahou Ren » Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:25 pm

Do anyone knows why did LGZ portrays Lu Bu as the single most powerful warrior, despite his unsuccessful career?
He never really defeated anybody famous and had very little victory on the battle field, both in SGYY and in history.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Why Luo Guanzong made Lu Bu so powerful?

Unread postby epaminondas146871 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:55 pm

Xiahou Ren wrote:Do anyone knows why did LGZ portrays Lu Bu as the single most powerful warrior, despite his unsuccessful career?
He never really defeated anybody famous and had very little victory on the battle field, both in SGYY and in history.

Thanks in advance.


Well, he held off all three brothers at once.

He killed at least 5 minor warriors who challenged him (he crippled Wu Anguo), though that was only SGYY.
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Re: Why Luo Guanzong made Lu Bu so powerful?

Unread postby Gray Riders » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:10 pm

epaminondas146871 wrote:
Well, he held off all three brothers at once.

That was fictional, too. The only person Lu Bu was historically recorded to duel was Guo Si, who he failed to kill (But did defeat).
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Re: Why Luo Guanzong made Lu Bu so powerful?

Unread postby Erdrick » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:37 pm

Xiahou Ren wrote:Do anyone knows why did LGZ portrays Lu Bu as the single most powerful warrior, despite his unsuccessful career?
He never really defeated anybody famous and had very little victory on the battle field, both in SGYY and in history.

Thanks in advance.



Various theories, from enhancing the legend of the Three Brothers, boosting Cao Cao's stature, to the real reason- Luo damned well felt like it. (You take history, add a generous helping of folklore, and mix it together over a flame of writer's perogative- BAM!)
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Re: Why Luo Guanzong made Lu Bu so powerful?

Unread postby Human5 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:46 pm

Xiahou Ren wrote:Do anyone knows why did LGZ portrays Lu Bu as the single most powerful warrior, despite his unsuccessful career?
He never really defeated anybody famous and had very little victory on the battle field, both in SGYY and in history.

Thanks in advance.



He really was the best warrior in history. He just wasn't a good general and leader.
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Re: Why Luo Guanzong made Lu Bu so powerful?

Unread postby Xiahou Ren » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:34 pm

Thank you.
Perhaps he was very in skilled martial arts, though I'm still not really sure about it since individual skill means little when you're fighting a whole army...

Erdrick wrote:Various theories, from enhancing the legend of the Three Brothers, boosting Cao Cao's stature, to the real reason- Luo damned well felt like it. (You take history, add a generous helping of folklore, and mix it together over a flame of writer's perogative- BAM!)


That's what I thought too. LGZ somewhat romantized Lu Bu, to strengthen Cao Cao's and Three Brothers's image even further.

I feel sorry for Lu Bu, since he looks like one of those "always trying but keeps failing" kind of guy. Kinda like Jiang Wei.
If he really was known for his matchless strength, I believe he would've gained more support after killing Dong Zhuo.
I mean, he was the best warrior in the land who killed a tyrant, yet still couldn't secure his position at Chang An.
Well... unless his treacherous nature was already known, back then.
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Re: Why Luo Guanzong made Lu Bu so powerful?

Unread postby Gray Riders » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:37 am

Xiahou Ren wrote:Thank you.
Perhaps he was very in skilled martial arts, though I'm still not really sure about it since individual skill means little when you're fighting a whole army...

It can mean more than you'd think, actually. A good portion of armies back at that time were not highly trained, and having a powerful warrior to rally around can mean much, especially when that warrior is leading the charge with his best troops. Hefei is an excellent example, or on the other side of the fence, Lu Meng was credited with the swift victory at Xiakou, and he did it by smashing through the enemy and beheading a commander.

I feel sorry for Lu Bu, since he looks like one of those "always trying but keeps failing" kind of guy. Kinda like Jiang Wei.
If he really was known for his matchless strength, I believe he would've gained more support after killing Dong Zhuo.
I mean, he was the best warrior in the land who killed a tyrant, yet still couldn't secure his position at Chang An.
Well... unless his treacherous nature was already known, back then.

It was Wang Yun's fault; Lu Bu told him exactly how to secure Chang An but he was ignored, and it ended in disaster.
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Re: Why Luo Guanzong made Lu Bu so powerful?

Unread postby Zyzyfer » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:10 am

Xiahou Ren wrote:If he really was known for his matchless strength, I believe he would've gained more support after killing Dong Zhuo. I mean, he was the best warrior in the land who killed a tyrant, yet still couldn't secure his position at Chang An.
Well... unless his treacherous nature was already known, back then.


What I love about Lu Bu is how he starts out so darned evil and morphs into this guy who surrenders himself to spare his men by the end.

It's like...

*Killing Ding Yuan - totally bad taste
*Killing Dong Zhuo - in bad taste but the fat bastard had it coming
*Rebelling in Yan - good timing
*Seizing Xiapi - a funny one, the novel makes it out like Lu Bu is some saintly lord who only wants to protect the city from danger

It seems like as time went on he just couldn't decide who he wanted to side with. All these ambitious guys right up his alley and he can't form any reliable relations. Tries to ally with Yuan Shu, then reneges and sends the envoy to Cao Cao to show good faith. He has some of the most erratic behavior of anyone from the period.
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Re: Why Luo Guanzong made Lu Bu so powerful?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:45 am

Human5 wrote:
Xiahou Ren wrote:Do anyone knows why did LGZ portrays Lu Bu as the single most powerful warrior, despite his unsuccessful career?
He never really defeated anybody famous and had very little victory on the battle field, both in SGYY and in history.

Thanks in advance.



He really was the best warrior in history. He just wasn't a good general and leader.


I would dispute the claims he was a bad general. He had plenty of victories, including almost wiping out Cao Cao, though I agree he was a weak leader.

From the SGZ
Lü Bu was an adept archer and rider and his arm strength was unmatched.
and he was one of a few people who won a duel historically (alongside Yan Xing and possibly Yang Fu) though wasn't one of the seven who got an officer kill (Dong Xi got two). So the simplistic answer to the original question would be becuase Lu Bu arguably was the strongest warrior of the time anyway.

However other notably strong warriors got downplayed or written out for storyline purposes. Lu Bu on the other hand was a gift for LGZ, it allowed him to do that epic 3vs1 one battle and give the three brothers a starring role against the evil Dong, Lu Bu killed Dong and slept with a maid allowing LGZ to do the Diao Chan ploy, then there is the vs Cao Cao and vs Liu Bei thing. There were some nice details of some battles for LGZ to play with but also allowed Lu Bu (admittedly, one made into more of an idiot) to provide a contrast to two of the main warlords.
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Re: Why Luo Guanzong made Lu Bu so powerful?

Unread postby Elitemsh » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:58 am

There is also no doubt that from looking at the historical records that Cao Cao was very eager to get rid of Lu Bu. This would clearly suggest that he considered Lu Bu to be a significant threat. We can therefore say that Lu Bu was certainly a very talented individual and also quite a lot of people were scared of him. Even Yuan Shao's generals were afraid of him and they were men of war.
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