AxeLordGerardo wrote:Well, maybe it is a mix between his murders, when he was with Chen Gong and he executed the entire Lu Boshe family when they were fleeing as fugitives only to "avoid" to be captured and between to be Yuan Shao´s nemesis, the one who cut off his road to conquest. I admit his talent, but I will never admit his methods, he is not too far on cruelty from Dong Zhuo, but at least he recognized an officer´s ability (not was this way with Chen Gong, in other hand).
I agree Cao Cao could be rather brutal though Gong really can't take the highroad on that murder. I don't have much issue, given the standards of the time, for a very scared pair to have sought to protect themselves though there are plenty of other times where even I condemn Cao Cao.
Yuan Shao had plenty of rivals but in the end, despite Cao Cao's darker streak, would say Cao Cao would have been a better ruler. Cao Cao implemented reforms that made lives better, Yuan Shao seemed content with the same old systems only with him in charge.
You are right with the matter of the southern conquests, if you refer at the Jing Province, but we all know that those little good to nothing rulers, like Han Xuan, Zhao Fan, Jin Xuan and Liu Du oppose little resistance, only broken at times for little unpolished diamonds like Wei Yan and Huang Zhong. But a conquest is a conquest so you have a point here.
That was Liu Bei who took over with ease though two of the lords were men of some note historically. I was referring to Sun Quan, through generals like He Qi, who launch campaign after campaign to the south of Wu. They even considering invading Japan they had driven so far south.
This battle is more complicated than we see it. Years ago were much more Yuan Shao´s detractors, so almost everybody said that the defeat was due to Yuan Shao´s indecisiveness. But the truth is that there are a lot of events between mistakes and luck for Cao Cao. (I cannot write more in this one)
True
AxeLordGerardo wrote:A - Yuan Shao´s mistakes: I have to admit that Yuan Shao´s attention were not always in the correct direction. There are more impotant things that avoid to listen your advisors (why they were so much?) or to enrage yourself with them and put one of the most dedicated strategist and good hearted person like Tian Feng (my avatar) and put him in jail. Imagine a new Guan Du, with Yuan Shao and Tian Feng working together much more often... That is the all Yuan Shao´s ROTK game fan´s dream. Change the course of the battle.
We have to remember that it was rumored that Yuan Shao was already ill at his last years, that could justify his change of behavior after the battle at River Pan
. Maybe being ill, he was more inclined to a fast move against
Cao Cao to ensure the Central plains before he died.
Every warlord had a whole bunch of advisers, some closer then others. With Yuan Shao, he was very close to Ju Shou but near Guan Du, he effectively demoted Ju Shou which opened the field to other advisers and Yuan Shao didn't have the natrual authority to keep it under control. By the sounds of it, Tian Feng had a habit of annoying people and he did seem to be being a pain up the behind so can see what he was jailed.
I think the rumour is old age/illness began affecting his judgement. I suspect there is some truth in that but it did become a bit too much of a get out clause.
B - Wu Chao: Little to say here, one of the most hilarious events of the novel that I can remember. Xu You is ignored, and as a counter move he goes crying like a baby to Cao Cao, revealing him the location of Yuan Shao´s Forces supplies facility. As we all know, the place was guarded by another early past legend, Chunyu Qiong. I have to suppose the man, years entered, wasn´t expecting a visit that night, so he drank at pleasure
, letting Cao Cao´s disguised troops defeat them and burn it all without almost any resistance. I believe that luck was decisive here. I can barely believe how one thing led to the other...
Makes me wonder why LGZ wrote the Wu Chao attack as he did.
I agree luck went Cao Cao's way on this, things broke for him but I suppose it could be said, luck favours the bold. He sought to end it quickly with a daring counter-strike and it worked perfectly
C - Yan Liang and Wen Chou: I only say that I will never know what would happened if Guan Yu had not been there. I think Yan Liang and Wen Chou did well, yet without any prepared strategy. For me its 50%-50%
Wen Chou would have got smashed and given Ju Shou's comments, maybe Yan Liang would have been as well. Without the novel Guan Yu, Wen Chou might have survived but his performance was dreadful. Have to wonder why Yuan Shao didn't use his better generals though
AxeLordGerardo wrote:D - Yuan Shao´s regroup: Yet being crushed at Guan Du, Yuan Shao fleed with success to Ye, could be? There he was rearranging the army, so that demostrate that he was no easy prey and that he was ready for continue the war against his nemesis, but death called at his door , and that was his end
Yeah, Guan Du isn't as desicivie in the north as it gets portrayed. Momentum swung to Cao Cao and the Yuan family had lost a lot of their best figures but victory at Canting and the early success of the Yuan sons shows they were still a force as long as they were united.
) that Cao Cao was a much better ruler and commander than Yuan Shao. 
