Did Cao Cao get anything out of his Hanzhong campaign?

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Re: Did Cao Cao get anything out of his Hanzhong campaign?

Unread postby Qu Hui » Tue May 31, 2011 3:42 pm

Yang Dayang wrote:He did gain everything in his first campaign, he gained the city, Zhang Lu's surrender, his retainers, his population and his wealth.

Yeah, but he did lose several important things in the campaign as well. The first was one of his best front line generals, Xiahou Yuan. The second was an easy route into Yizhou and possibly his only chance to take Yizhou from Liu Bei. The third was another potentially useful general, Wang Ping. The fourth would be the city itself, which was rather prosperous and proved to be a great boon to Shu. The fifth thing he lost was the population of Hanzhong. So, you've got to wonder, does one city worth of wealth and one small force worth of retainers make up for the lost of a flourishing city, it's population, one of his best generals and the advantage that Hanzhong presented against Shu?
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Re: Did Cao Cao get anything out of his Hanzhong campaign?

Unread postby memeo » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:51 am

He got Pang De who was later on fight Guan Yu and died also :lol:

Hmm... No point for him attacking Han Zhong, and later on the city was captured by Liu Bei... and I wonder why he didnt assume to march his troops to attack Cheng Du? Was it because he needed to move to Hefei to intercept Sun Quan :-?

I mostly agree with what Qu Hui said as well.
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Re: Did Cao Cao get anything out of his Hanzhong campaign?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:39 am

He said his troops were tired after a long camapign and may have feared getting bogged down in Yi would allow Wu a chance to make a strong strike.
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Re: Did Cao Cao get anything out of his Hanzhong campaign?

Unread postby Zhilong » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:48 pm

Qu Hui wrote:
Yang Dayang wrote:He did gain everything in his first campaign, he gained the city, Zhang Lu's surrender, his retainers, his population and his wealth.

Yeah, but he did lose several important things in the campaign as well. The first was one of his best front line generals, Xiahou Yuan. The second was an easy route into Yizhou and possibly his only chance to take Yizhou from Liu Bei. The third was another potentially useful general, Wang Ping. The fourth would be the city itself, which was rather prosperous and proved to be a great boon to Shu. The fifth thing he lost was the population of Hanzhong. So, you've got to wonder, does one city worth of wealth and one small force worth of retainers make up for the lost of a flourishing city, it's population, one of his best generals and the advantage that Hanzhong presented against Shu?

Wait, i thought Cao Cao was able to relocate the populace of Hanzhong into Wei, meaning that Shu effectively took an empty city.
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Re: Did Cao Cao get anything out of his Hanzhong campaign?

Unread postby Qu Hui » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:59 pm

Zhilong wrote:Wait, i thought Cao Cao was able to relocate the populace of Hanzhong into Wei, meaning that Shu effectively took an empty city.

There is no historical evidence that Cao Cao did such a thing. He did relocate 50,000 Di from Wudu into Youfufeng and Tianshui, though.
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Re: Did Cao Cao get anything out of his Hanzhong campaign?

Unread postby Zhilong » Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:47 pm

Qu Hui wrote:
Zhilong wrote:Wait, i thought Cao Cao was able to relocate the populace of Hanzhong into Wei, meaning that Shu effectively took an empty city.

There is no historical evidence that Cao Cao did such a thing. He did relocate 50,000 Di from Wudu into Youfufeng and Tianshui, though.

Hmm i thought i read it somewhere years ago but too lazy to go look. My ZZTJ is buried too deep for me to risk an avalanche. :lol:
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Re: Did Cao Cao get anything out of his Hanzhong campaign?

Unread postby jiang cheng » Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:41 am

On the short run, he seems to be on the losing end.

However in the long run, he was able to waste Shu's resources and that it would be a matter of time that Shu will not be able to hold onto the northern terrorities and Wei could just rush in. Key word is how long? As it had shown in the end, Shu loses the entire kingdom via the North.
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Re: Did Cao Cao get anything out of his Hanzhong campaign?

Unread postby Yang Dayang » Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:46 pm

Hate it when I get misunderstood due to me not explaining myself enough :\

SGZ, you mean:


Um nope, I ment you gotta love the novel because historically Xu Huang chased Shu soldiers till they jumped of a cliff. Meh, nevermind.

Yeah, but he did lose several important things in the campaign as well. The first was one of his best front line generals, Xiahou Yuan. The second was an easy route into Yizhou and possibly his only chance to take Yizhou from Liu Bei. The third was another potentially useful general, Wang Ping. The fourth would be the city itself, which was rather prosperous and proved to be a great boon to Shu. The fifth thing he lost was the population of Hanzhong. So, you've got to wonder, does one city worth of wealth and one small force worth of retainers make up for the lost of a flourishing city, it's population, one of his best generals and the advantage that Hanzhong presented against Shu?


You've also got to wonder, did all that happen in the same campaign? Cao Cao's campaign against Hanzhong got him the land, officers, wealth and many things. Xiahou Yuan lost it years after that, that doesn't belong in the campaign Cao Cao had years before and that's what I said. Cao Cao got the city and Xiahou Yuan lost it years later, so he did get everything in (his) campaign, and it's not fair to say he didn't get anything just because Xiahou Yuan lost it years after that.
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Re: Did Cao Cao get anything out of his Hanzhong campaign?

Unread postby Yi-De » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:20 am

I think if Xiahou Yuan hadnt put that barbed fence at the foot at Mt.dingjun he never would have lost Hanzhong
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