Elitemsh wrote:Wang Ping was good (maybe very good?)
Gray Riders wrote:But it wasn't enough. Wei had a massive troop advantage and plenty of their own great generals. Even if Zhang Fei and the others were alive I doubt it would work because the first failed even with Zhao Yun still alive and Wei apparently less prepared.
the hidden dragon wrote:Well, i do not think a few individual can make any different to SHu's fate. Esp they are stucked in Yi Zhou. And during the northern expeditions, they do have many good general as equate the wei.
Maybe they shld really focus on recapturing Jing Zhou from Wu instead. But i guess it all boiled down to the wrong timing and destiny. its fated that ulitmately, WEi or rather Qin will over run all of them bah.
Elitemsh wrote:Well to be fair, the first campaign may have only failed because of one man's idiocy, Ma Su.
If Zhang Fei was still alive i think it would have made a difference in the first campaign. IMO, Shu would likely have gained Chang'an. I also think that Zhao Yun could have succeeded where Ma Su failed had he been given that assignment but he was needed as the decoy since no one else in Shu had his experience of being so badly outnumbered and yet coming out on top.
What i want to know is even if Shu had succeeded and gained Chang'an could they have held onto it and what difference would that have made in the war? Correct me if i am wrong but I would have thought that the supply issues would still be prevalent even if Zhuge Liang gained Chang'an.
Elitemsh wrote:What i want to know is even if Shu had succeeded and gained Chang'an could they have held onto it and what difference would that have made in the war? Correct me if i am wrong but I would have thought that the supply issues would still be prevalent even if Zhuge Liang gained Chang'an.
Dong Zhou wrote:If they fight Wu for Jing, a much more powerful Wu, then Shu ends up in two front war it can not afford and risks facing a double invasion. I don't think Wei's success should be put down to fate, a lot of people deserve a lot of credit for the way it expanded and was able to survive it's political chaos without Wu or Shu making inroads
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