Who did most to establish Wu:Sun Jian, Sun Ce, or Sun Quan?

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Who did most to establish Wu:Sun Jian, Sun Ce, or Sun Quan?

Unread postby Human5 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:47 pm

They all were important to the establishment of wu. who help the most?
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Re: Who is most sucessful:Sun Jian, Sun Ce, or Sun Quan?

Unread postby Human5 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:39 pm

hey. i would like it if someone who saw this actually answer!!!
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Re: Who is most sucessful:Sun Jian, Sun Ce, or Sun Quan?

Unread postby Sean » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:41 pm

Sun Jian is a pretty cool guy, eh killed Yellow Turbans when he was a kid and doesn't afraid of anything. But then he got ambushed.
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Re: Who is most sucessful:Sun Jian, Sun Ce, or Sun Quan?

Unread postby Human5 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:46 pm

so do you mean that sun jian was most important to the wu kingdom?
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Re: Who is most sucessful:Sun Jian, Sun Ce, or Sun Quan?

Unread postby mrbeate » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:50 pm

What do you mean 'successful' ?? Of course Sun Jian is the most important to the Wu Kingdom, without him there would be no Sun Ce,Quan,Ren, and other descendants.

Edit: Successful in their career?
Success in battle?
Success in domestics?
Successful in life?
Smoke, drink, relieve my stress
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Re: Who is most sucessful:Sun Jian, Sun Ce, or Sun Quan?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:26 pm

Human5 wrote:hey. i would like it if someone who saw this actually answer!!!


Give us time

Not Sun Jian, either history or novel. Sun Jian left behind a reputation yes but was surpassed by his eldest sons Ce and Quan. As for between the two, hard to say since Ce died so early
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Re: Who is most sucessful:Sun Jian, Sun Ce, or Sun Quan?

Unread postby Crazedmongoose » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:01 am

Sun Ce then Sun Quan


I still disagree with the thought that Sun Jian contributed much as the founder of Wu aside from...you know...creating his sons.


Like, you'd credit Yuan Shao's father (whoever that may be) more of Yuan Shao's glories than you'd credit Sun Jian for Sun Ce/Quan's glories.
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Re: Who is most sucessful:Sun Jian, Sun Ce, or Sun Quan?

Unread postby Sean » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:33 am

Human5 wrote:so do you mean that sun jian was most important to the wu kingdom?


I didn't say he was the most important. I just said that Sun Jian was a pretty cool guy. But the most important thing he probably did was his role as father to Sun Ce and Sun Quan.
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Re: Who is most sucessful:Sun Jian, Sun Ce, or Sun Quan?

Unread postby Jia_Xu » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:17 am

Sun Ce, without him the kingdom would have never been established.

I've seen no evidence that Sun Jian historically had the ambition to rule his own kingdom.
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Re: Who is most sucessful:Sun Jian, Sun Ce, or Sun Quan?

Unread postby Sun Fin » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:39 pm

I think that saying that all Sun Jian did was have kids is really harsh and unfair.

If Sun Ce had been born the son of a merchant do you really think he would have been able to rule his own kingdom? Sun Jian did a lot in terms of social advancement and even gained a few officers despite not conquering a land base.

That said I still would vote for Sun Ce. He won many victories and secured a lot of land that later became the centre of Wu. He also gained a lot important men including Zhou Yu and Zhang Zhhao who were crucial to Wu even after Bofu's death.
Last edited by Sun Fin on Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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