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Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:31 am
by Zyzyfer
Yeah I thought of starting a thread but I would have to think for a while to come up with ten. Because it is kind of a unique way to think about talent, or lack thereof.

I personally don't think tossing people who had one-off losses is that fair. But then what if their reputation precedes them? I mean, tossing Ma Su in seems a bit much, but I would certainly think that Yan Liang would make the list, even though both only really are involved in one battle that we know of.

Jiang Wei was an idiot about the big picture but he did manage a victory or two, not sure about him.

Did Liu Shan even ever lead an army? That's like saying Yan Jun is a crap general. The guy couldn't even ride a horse, and never led men.

I think a "Your Ten Least Favorite Generals" might be better since it is more clearly subjective.

Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:18 am
by Qu Hui
Zyzyfer wrote:tossing Ma Su in seems a bit much,

Honestly I think the blame should lie more with Zhuge Liang, he let his personal relationship with Ma Su interfere with his judgment and paid for it.

Anywho, my top ten:

1. Xu Huang: The man didn't have a single defeat while serving under Wei. Nearly 30 years filled with nothing but military success, often accompanied by unfavorable odds and excellent strategy on his part.
2. The Man (Cao Cao): An excellent general and tactician, only brought down by a select few incidents (initial battles at Tong, campaigns at Wan, Chibi).
3. Ma Long: Sort of pushing the limits of the period, but an excellent general nonetheless.
4. Zhang He: A well-rounded mix of general and tactician. Very successful in his long career with Wei.
5. Deng Ai: Other than his strike at Chengdu, which was a risky but ultimately successful gambit, he was also able to defeat Jiang Wei at every turn when they met in combat and was a master of using terrain to his advantage.
6. Zhang Liao: His raid at Hefei definitely earns him a spot here. He was also another Wei general with a long and successful career.
7. Ding Feng: For his raid at Xuteng and for his other successes against Wei during Zhuge Dan's rebellion.
8. Cao Zhen: One of Wei's best generals in the later years. Handled Shu's invasions very well.
9. Wang Ping: One of Shu's best generals, especially defensively.
10. Huangfu Song: One of the Han's last, late great generals. Did a good deal to take down the Yellow Turbans quickly despite a disadvantage in numbers.
Honorable mention: Zhou Yu, Gan Ning, Sun Ce, Yu Jin, Yue Jin, Zhang Fei, Li Yan, Guo Huai, among others.

Wei bias? I haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about...

Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:58 pm
by Sun Fin
Qu Hui wrote:Wei bias? I haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about...


Hmm, understatement? :wink:

Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:33 pm
by ROTKobsessed
Zyzyfer wrote:I think a "Your Ten Least Favorite Generals" might be better since it is more clearly subjective.


it'd also be possible to have a 'ten most overrated generals'

Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:38 pm
by Boydie
ROTKobsessed wrote:
Zyzyfer wrote:I think a "Your Ten Least Favorite Generals" might be better since it is more clearly subjective.


it'd also be possible to have a 'ten most overrated generals'


I wonder how high Zhang Liao would be on that. :wink:

Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:44 pm
by Sun Fin
Boydie wrote:
ROTKobsessed wrote:
Zyzyfer wrote:I think a "Your Ten Least Favorite Generals" might be better since it is more clearly subjective.


it'd also be possible to have a 'ten most overrated generals'


I wonder how high Zhang Liao would be on that. :wink:


Not very high, he is worth his reputation :P .

There's this old Overrated/underated thread which you could look through for idea's.

Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:58 pm
by Boydie
I know haha! I was shamelessly fishing! :lol:

Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:30 am
by Zyzyfer
ROTKobsessed wrote:
Zyzyfer wrote:I think a "Your Ten Least Favorite Generals" might be better since it is more clearly subjective.


it'd also be possible to have a 'ten most overrated generals'


I phrased that wrong. See that's why I didn't create the thread, I can't even come up with a proper title. :lol:

"Subjectively Ten Least Talented Generals" doesn't have the right ring to it, no?

Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:22 pm
by Jordan
An excellent general and tactician, only brought down by a select few incidents (initial battles at Tong, campaigns at Wan, Chibi).


You could add a lot more to this list. He nearly lost his life in a disastrous and foolish attack against Xu Rong at Rongyang. While scouting Yellow Turban remnants in Qing province, he ran into the enemy's main army and one of his closest allies was killed. He was captured by enemy troops in battle with Lu Bu at Puyang. He was lucky to have survived a mutiny by his own troops shortly after Yang province. If you consider the numerous men from this period who died in mutinies: Zhang Miao, Zhang Fei, Zhong Hui, Zhuge Liang's uncle I think, it's a miracle Cao Cao got out of that event alive.

Cao Cao was a great general but he wasn't very cautious. He was extremely reckless in his early career. It was incredible fortune that allowed him to survive the era after numerous incidents that nearly led to his death.

I can't think of a top 10 at the moment but I'd rate Xu Rong, Qu Yi and Sun Ce highly.

Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:30 pm
by DragonAtma
Qu Hui wrote:1. Xu Huang: The man didn't have a single defeat while serving under Wei. Nearly 30 years filled with nothing but military success, often accompanied by unfavorable odds and excellent strategy on his part.


Well, almost undefeated; he was Cao Ren's assistant at Jiangling 208 (which they lost despite having triple wu's troops).

He does have a very good record, though.