Top 10 Generals of the period

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Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postby Sun Fin » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:15 pm

I'd asy Zhuge Liang was the smartest person in the era. Not the best general but he innvented things, was amazingly civily, basically a master of all trades.

Yeah Mrwong is right. Sun Ce wasn't a hot headed idiot. Not once did he show a reckless streak on the battlefield. The only time his temper was obvious was when he executed the scholar and the mystic and i'm still inclined to think that they were thought-out executions. His logic was faulted in accessing the were risks in the first place but thats not an anger issue.

Basically as I do anyone who makes that kind of statement masterluxun I challenge you to show me an example of Sun ce acted recklessly on the battlefield. Damn koei giving him that personality in the games.
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Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postby Crazedmongoose » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:23 pm

Agree with Mrwong and Sun Fin's defense of Sun Ce, and also need to add that Guo Jia wasn't ever a general.

Also I think, if we're going to look at people's qualities as general, you have to look at them whilst operating in the capacity of a general. So for example, most of Lu Su's more glorious moments happened in his capacity as an advisor, as a general he was lacking. Guan Yu's moments of glory happened when he was a division level commander (or around that rank), his one major command he lost.



I wouldn't know if Zhuge Liang was the smartest person of the era. Definitely one of the, of course. Especially I think if you combined all his fields. But individually somebody always seemed to surpass him in some field or some other. Guo Jia and Jia Xu were both better in military strategy, I'd say Cao Cao, Sun Ce and maybe Lu Xun were better commanders, Mao Jie, Zhang Zhao and Xun Yu comparable administrators, Lu Su comparable or maybe better at diplomacy and geopolitical strategy etc etc.

And as good as Zhuge Liang was at administration and politics, what absolutely revolutionary socio-economic/political idea did he really have? Mao Jie and Cao Cao came up with the Tuntian system which in my mind is one of the smartest if not the smartest idea in all the duration of the Three Kingdoms, the idea of merit before virtue was Cao Cao's, using people as a leverage base was Liu Bei's.

I guess the Longzhong plan was his revolutionary idea. (which as we know, Lu Su got to first) But what made me lose a lot of respect for Zhuge Liang and the Longzhong plan was that he didn't actually stick to the plan later on. The plan called for an attack on the central plains when change was occuring, ie. when Wei was destabilized in some way. Or else Shu should build it's strength and rely on it's defenses. That makes perfect sense, but then Zhuge Liang ended up repeatedly attacking a strong and stable Wei, and in my mind, furthered the competitive advantage gap between the two states over the long run.
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Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postby Cao Hong 14 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:01 pm

cao cao
sun ce
lu xun
zhuge liang
zhang liao
zhang fei
zhou yu
sima yi
liu bei
zhang he or xu huang
"Change is the law of life. And those who only look to the past or present are certain to miss the future. "
- President John F. Kennedy
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Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postby LuXunMaster102 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:28 pm

mrwongshappymushu wrote:I was gonna wait for Sun Fin to catch ya on that one :) But Sun Ce was one of the best, hands down, he didnt have anger issues historically, unless we're talking novel about all of this? :?

If I put Sun Ce in the Top 10, he is one of the best.
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Yuan Dynasty:

Ruler - Yuan Shao
Prime Minister - Guo Jia
Grand Commander - Zhou Yu
Alternate - Sun Jian
Viceroy - Lu Su
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Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postby mrwongshappymushu » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:13 pm

LuXunMaster102 wrote:
mrwongshappymushu wrote:I was gonna wait for Sun Fin to catch ya on that one :) But Sun Ce was one of the best, hands down, he didnt have anger issues historically, unless we're talking novel about all of this? :?

If I put Sun Ce in the Top 10, he is one of the best.

But you were saying he had anger issues, I'm sure that he doesnt :roll:
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Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postby Xia Kyoto » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:11 am

Lu Meng
Lu Xun
Zhou Yu

Fei Yi
Zhuge Liang
Guan Yu

Zhang Liao
Zhang He
Sima Yi
Yang Hu
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.. and if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche
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Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postby Cao Hong 14 » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:44 am

Why did you put some like Fei Yi, Guan Yu, and Yang Hu?
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Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postby Xia Kyoto » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:45 am

Cao Hong 14 wrote:Why did you put some like Fei Yi, Guan Yu, and Yang Hu?


Why not?
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Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postby Cao Hong 14 » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:49 am

well I just want to know more about yang hu and fei yi, who were they again. All I remember of fei yi was zhuge liang saying he was second in line for civil matters. Guan Yu was good but there were others that were superior
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Re: Top 10 Generals of the period

Unread postby Xia Kyoto » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:52 am

Cao Hong 14 wrote:well I just want to know more about yang hu and fei yi, who were they again. All I remember of fei yi was zhuge liang saying he was second in line for civil matters. Guan Yu was good but there were others that were superior


Fei Yi is just one of my favorite strategists in Shu, and seeing as though ZGL wanted to pass down civil matters to Fei Yi, it meant he trusted him deeply and thought he had talent. Plus he was one of the head 5. Yang Hu was one of Wei's/Jin's last great generals (i forget who he was really loyal to), and he also just interests me for some reason.

As for Guan Yu, i could probably find someone better to choose
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