Liu Bei Attacks Wu; Cao Pi Joins

[dymlos timbre]

Ok, so heres a big "what if.." alright liu bei marches of under the condition of revenge for the death of guan yu, now instead of sitting back and watching, say cao pi joins in on the attack on wu, do you think Wu would be destroyed? if so, then what?? would liu bei have more of a chance to take wei down (maybe they gain heavy losses?) or would cao pi attack pretty much secure Wei's victory much earlier?

[mrbeate]

I think Wu would be terminated, and possibly surrender to one of them. If They defeat Wu then Cao Pi would probably end up having Yangzhou while Liu Bei gets most of Jing. In the end Cao Pi would win against Liu Bei, Shu couldn't take down Wei when they did have Jing and their rear was protected by their allies Wu. But now Wei surrounds them and Liu Bei's army is smaller than Cao Pi's. I still think Wei would win if Liu Bei and Cao Pi sandwiched Wu.

[dymlos timbre]

Yeah Cao pi's greatest mistake, does anyone know why he didnt Attack when such a perfect oppurtunity was presented to him?

[Qu Hui]

Yeah Cao pi's greatest mistake, does anyone know why he didnt Attack when such a perfect oppurtunity was presented to him?

At the time, Sun Quan was Cao Pi's vassal.

[dymlos timbre]

was his vassel? then Cao pi could have easily made him leave His palace and place him somewhere north were his officers cant contact him? Cao pi should have seen that Sun quan was just trying to save his hide.

[Dong Zhou]

If I recall rightly, Cao Pi was trying to secure his own power ala Cao Cao during Guan Yu's invasion. Even so, think it was an opportunity missed

Sun Quan would cede parts of Jing to Liu Bei, peace will be made and Quan fights off Cao Pi's invasion as his army marches quickly to the new front

[dymlos timbre]

I agree Dong, but would Liu bei agree t osuch a thing? (novel wise no becouse of the whole revenge thing but historically?)

also a little off Topic question, instead of makeing a new thread il ask here, Was there any possible way for Liu bei to Hold on to jing? or was his control on it pretty much doomed from the start? I keep seeingin older posts that If pang tong was alive either pang tong or Zhuge would be in jing along with guan yu ( or being the vicorey instead) i find it unlikely with the whole pang tong deal.

[Dong Zhou]

Depends if Liu Bei thinks he can grab more of Wu then Wei can but doubt it so would probably accept an adventitious treaty

Well the defences in 219 seem pretty solid but Guan Yu stripped it away, alienated his rearguard and was away when Wu struck, a more able viceroy would have probably been able to hold it

[dymlos timbre]

Thats the thing, Who could have Been vicorey in his place?

[tofu]

Depends if Liu Bei thinks he can grab more of Wu then Wei can but doubt it so would probably accept an adventitious treaty

Well the defences in 219 seem pretty solid but Guan Yu stripped it away, alienated his rearguard and was away when Wu struck, a more able viceroy would have probably been able to hold it

I understand that Guan Yu made a huge mistake, lost Jing, and lost his life, but why do people keep on ridiculing him for it? The guy took care of the place for ten years.