Guan Yus arrogance

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Re: Guan Yus arrogance

Unread postby Zappa » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:31 pm

He attcked Fan knowing that 1.Wu was in his back and he left Jing undefended and 2.Weis defence line was very strong there
plus he had no reinforcements because this was no order.

Not seeing one of this things,of course he had no chance because he wasnt prepared enough.
As the world changes,war comes and goes and with it might,wealth,right,freedom and land changes its owner,however the only thing that will always remain is the death,that comes with it.
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Re: Guan Yus arrogance

Unread postby Stallion Fury » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:38 pm

Arrogance can lead one to the point where one can no longer see straight. I believe Guan Yu thought he could handle Fan, Jingzhou, and Wu all at once.
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Re: Guan Yus arrogance

Unread postby Zappa » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:41 pm

Arrogance can lead one to the point where one can no longer see straight. I believe Guan Yu thought he could handle Fan, Jingzhou, and Wu all at once.


Yes and thats the point no one could that alone.As much as I like Guan Yu he was an idiot there.
As the world changes,war comes and goes and with it might,wealth,right,freedom and land changes its owner,however the only thing that will always remain is the death,that comes with it.
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Re: Guan Yus arrogance

Unread postby Stallion Fury » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:44 pm

And that is the reason Guan Yu isn't my favorite character.
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Re: Guan Yus arrogance

Unread postby Zappa » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:50 pm

Yes his arrogance really made his strengh usseless.I think he shares Lu Bus destiny.
As the world changes,war comes and goes and with it might,wealth,right,freedom and land changes its owner,however the only thing that will always remain is the death,that comes with it.
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Re: Guan Yus arrogance

Unread postby Stallion Fury » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:55 pm

Sad to say.
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Re: Guan Yus arrogance

Unread postby James » Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:18 pm

Guys, please keep contributions to this forum meaningful.
Agreeing with each other on the same topic across five posts is a bit much.

Why do you think Guan Yu couldn't handle that campaign? I would suggest that his loss here took place due to numerous unforeseen circumstances, such as Wu's involvement (and betrayal) and to a lesser extent thanks to stunts like the one pulled by Liu Feng. It has become extremely common for people to rail on Guan Yu for his 'arrogance', and I have definitely seen some well-crafted arguments supporting it in areas (such as from our own Dong Zhuo), but I don't see many areas where what arrogance he may have had, had a great impact on his military career.
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Re: Guan Yus arrogance

Unread postby mrwongshappymushu » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:33 pm

Why do you think Guan Yu couldn't handle that campaign? I would suggest that his loss here took place due to numerous unforeseen circumstances, such as Wu's involvement (and betrayal) and to a lesser extent thanks to stunts like the one pulled by Liu Feng. It has become extremely common for people to rail on Guan Yu for his 'arrogance', and I have definitely seen some well-crafted arguments supporting it in areas (such as from our own Dong Zhuo), but I don't see many areas where what arrogance he may have had, had a great impact on his military career.


Your right Guan really didnt pave the raod for his own destruction he helped it in truth it should be blamed on Liu Feng, Meng Da, Fu Shiren and Mi Fang
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Re: Guan Yus arrogance

Unread postby James » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:23 am

mrwongshappymushu wrote:Your right Guan really didnt pave the raod for his own destruction he helped it in truth it should be blamed on Liu Feng, Meng Da, Fu Shiren and Mi Fang

He had his hand around one of Wei's balls and he was doing a pretty good job of tugging it around. The principle cause of his death is definitely Wu's betrayal, though. People attribute this to his arrogance due to the way he handled Wu's marriage proposal, his generally unkind way of handling them in political affairs, and even a border raid, but truth is there is enough mention of Wu wanting this campaign prior to the event to suggest that they just grabbed an opportunity that came up and ran with it. Sadly, this was very shortsighted for Wu, as it pretty much sacrificed both kingdoms to Wei.
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Re: Guan Yus arrogance

Unread postby mrwongshappymushu » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:37 am

That's agreed but what I dont get is if Zhuge Liang was so smart why didnt he forsee such a horrible event. Also this leads me to criticize the completely unrealistic Longzhong Plan, which features Jing-zhou as a main base to attack Cao-Wei with a two-prong attack but the seize of Jing on Sun Quan's behalf was obvious because the Sun's have alway nourished the thought of adding Jing to their District collection. And I doubt that Sun Quan could sit in Wu contentedly while Shu held the strategically advantantageous Jing province
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Which ended up like this
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The Longzhong Plan... completely unrealistic
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