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Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:14 pm
by Zappa
Since ther excist two of such threads for both Wu and Shu this one is about comparing the three great Wei officers:
The great Zhang He,the powerful Xu Huang and the mighty and clever Zhang Liao.

Please post your opinions.

Re: Pang De equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:42 pm
by Mikhail
This is one of those comparisons that don't make any sense (to me anyways). The Zhao Yun one works because it is very, very arguable. He's had a long list of accomplishments that were noteworthy and were, as I had already said, it could be compared to those of Zhang Fei and Guan Yu.

However, Pang De basically had no time to do anything spectacular for Cao Cao. His greatest achievement (for Cao Cao anyway) was backing up Fan and wounding Guan Yu, but he eventually gets defeated by the tiger general in the same battle. On the other hand, Zhang Liao is considered to be one of, if not the greatest Wei general(s) while Xu Huang participated in many of Cao Cao's major battles and even defeated Yunchang at Fan to break the siege.

As I said, I don't see how this is a comparison that works. Personally, I think people like Zhang He, Xiahou Yuan, Yu Jin, etc. work better as comparisons because they had ample time in Cao Cao's camp to do things of note.

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:26 pm
by Zappa
OK I see that Pang De might be the wrong person for that so thats why this is now the Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Huang? Thread

I hope for your posts.

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:40 pm
by hall_of_famer02
Zappa wrote:OK I see that Pang De might be the wrong person for that so thats why this is now the Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Huang? Thread

I hope for your posts.


Zhang He was skilled and one of the best generals in Wei and thus was widely used in the later years when the Wei army were mostly led by Sima Yi. Zhang Liao was very useful, especially in He Fei. After he joined Cao Cao, his talents are used more and made him one of the best generals in Wei. Xu Huang was talented, and accompanied Cao Cao's many expeditions. He keeps his troops disciplined and tactful in the use of manpower. However, in terms of fighting ability, Xu Huang skilled, but was unable to beat Yan Liang, though he drew with Xu Chu in the novel. Zhang He and Zhang Liao, were both skilful fighters as well. Seeing what they accomplished, it could be said they were equal, with some points that each wins the others.

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:16 pm
by Zappa
One thing I liked by Zhang Liao was that he was more than just a good warrior and commander but also had some strategical and tactical skills so he had more knowledge about Arts of War than other generals as he showed in He Fei

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:23 pm
by hall_of_famer02
Zappa wrote:One thing I liked by Zhang Liao was that he was more than just a good warrior and commander but also had some strategical and tactical skills so he had more knowledge about Arts of War than other generals as he showed in He Fei


He's not the only one. Xu Huang showed his strategical skills when he is sent as the 2nd relief force to Fancheng after Yu Jin's was vanquished, he knew that most of his soldiers were poorly trained, Xu Huang did not go into battle straight away but camped behind the enemy to impose a deterrence effect. Meanwhile, he instructed his men to dig trenches around the nearby enemy city of Yancheng in a pretense to cut off supplies into the city. The enemies were deceived and abandoned their position. Xu Huang then established a foothold in Yan.

Zhang He was sent to Chencang and correctly predicted that the enemy would retreat before he even arrived because of shortage of food supply. He also warned Sima Yi of a possible ambush in the Mumen trail, which led to his death as there really was an ambush and Sima Yi ordered him to give chase.

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:32 pm
by the glorious sun jian
I think that almost every successfull general in the era has followed the art of war , even if it was not recorded .Men like Liao , He and Huang did have a very successfull career on battles that needs more than just leading and fighting .I think that a battle without a strategy can't be won .It needs you to be good in leading men and atleast have a little knowledge about the art of war .

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:22 pm
by mrbeate
Zhang He was more then a equal to Liao and Huang, well Huang. In the novel games like rotk they made Zhang He stronger then Zhang Liao and Xu Huang. He was a major factor in the defense against Zhuge Liang's Northern Campaign. And conquered areas with out assistance of Xiahou Yuan, when Yuan was suppose to take over it, but sent Zhang He first to deal the first few skirmishes and stuff. Only to find out that Zhang He already conquered it.

In my opinion Xu Huang isn't as great as He or Liao.

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:08 am
by Dong Zhou
Zhang He was perhaps smarter then those two but less of a leader, he was never given an important command, when Cao Zhen died they appointed Sima Yi over him so I would say inferior.

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:45 am
by Cao Chao
What's also important is that of Zhang He's achievements, his biggest victory was partly a result of exploiting a mistake made by Ma Su at Jieting.