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Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:55 am
by Terranigma Freak
About Pang De, you guys forgot the days when he served under Ma Teng. He's had a few accomplishments there as well. Pang De also beat Cao Cao's army during Ma Chao's campaign. Pang De's really something considering how little time he had with Cao Cao. Even Guan Yu's men were afraid of him.

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:44 pm
by Zappa
Pang De was really a great general the problem was that he hadnt the opportunitys to prove it like others had.

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:30 pm
by Dong Zhou
Wouldn't say Pang De was a great general, he was possibly a great vanguard guy and clearly a skilled warrior but great as a general? Didn't show enough

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:22 pm
by Tan_Binrui
Dong Zhou wrote:Wouldn't say Pang De was a great general, he was possibly a great vanguard guy and clearly a skilled warrior but great as a general? Didn't show enough


Exactly. Let's remember that, historically, his accomplishments are limited to leading the charge, killing wontonly, and getting captured. Great for morale, sure. Great general? No.

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:21 am
by PhoenixRising
Tan_Binrui wrote:Exactly. Let's remember that, historically, his accomplishments are limited to leading the charge, killing wontonly, and getting captured. Great for morale, sure. Great general? No.


Yep...he only followed command. Not a creative man. Uncle Zhang Liao is far better than him.

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:55 pm
by Tan_Binrui
PhoenixRising wrote:Yep...he only followed command. Not a creative man. Uncle Zhang Liao is far better than him.


While I agree, I don't think Zhang Liao was greater than Zhang He or Xu Huang.

Of the three, I find Xu Huang the most capable. Zhang Liao was involved in a lot of battles, but his most impressive victories were convincing the enemy to surrender and raiding an army of ill troops. Nothing to scoff at, but not as impressive as Xu Huang's accomplishments, which also include convincing enemies to surrender, but put on top of this many examples of his strategic thinking and tactical skill, not simply battles he was involved it.

Greater than both, I would say, or at least as good as Xu Huang, was Yu Jin. His victories were overwhelming against all odds many times throughout his life. His only real failure led to a soiling of his name, which gives truth to the Machiavellian quote: "A general could lose a thousand battles, and one victory could clear his name. A general could win a thousand battles, and one failure could destroy his reputation."

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:50 pm
by ZhouTai50
The better general between Zhang He and Xu Huang would be an extremely close decision, I believe. Both had great victories, were very intelligent commanders, and had very few defeats. Personally, I'd probably give the edge to Zhang He, because in his only real defeat, to Zhang Fei during the Hanzhong Campaign, he still managed to gain a substantial amount of territory.

Zhang Liao, I find, is extremely overrated. Don't get me wrong, he was a good general with a long career, but aside from Hefei, what great victory did he have? Not to mention how overblown the Battle of Hefei, and Zhang Liao's actions in it, is.

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:01 pm
by Zappa
aside from Hefei, what great victory did he have?

None I think however he tooked part in a lot of other battles where he wasnt the commander or?

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:19 pm
by mrbeate
But the victory at He Fei was a great one. If he didn't win at He Fei, Sun quan could've marched on Xu Chang and ultimately destroy Wei. Most of Cao Cao's army was at Han Zhong and take would take a long time to get to Xu Chang. Also Zhang Liaos role at He Fei imporant because he, Yu Jin and Li Dian were the only generals defending the borders against Wu. Also they only had 7,000 troops. Sun Quan had an army of like 200 000 ready to march on He Fei.

Re: Zhang He equal of Zhang Liao and Xu Haung?

Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:41 pm
by Zappa
Your right it was a great victory how can such a hughe victory be overrated? I would say one great victory is worth more than 100 little especially when it happens in the perfect moment.