Why do we view the YTR as negative?

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Why do we view the YTR as negative?

Unread postby Jebusrocks » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:58 am

Why do we, and many portrayals, portray the Yellow Turban Rebellion (along with other peasant rebellions) as negative? I mean.. by this time the Han was already corrupt and various famines and migrations were beginning to heavily effect the peasants while the Imperial Court did nothing; shouldn't it be considered as a positive event?
It is curious that the Americans, who calculate so carefully on the possibilities of military victory, do not realize that in the process they are incurring deep psychological and political defeat.
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Re: Why do we view the YTR as negative?

Unread postby Shritzu » Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:00 am

Ahhhh....knowledge sought in in a so very dense society......I believe it is the rebellous nature itself found in all of us that is looked down on...mostly for it 's tendency to bring change, something greatly feared, especialy for highly cultured nations with very limited technology(like china at the time)..........
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Re: Why do we view the YTR as negative?

Unread postby hall_of_famer02 » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:13 am

Jebusrocks wrote:Why do we, and many portrayals, portray the Yellow Turban Rebellion (along with other peasant rebellions) as negative? I mean.. by this time the Han was already corrupt and various famines and migrations were beginning to heavily effect the peasants while the Imperial Court did nothing; shouldn't it be considered as a positive event?


The Han imperial court was already crumbling, and even without the YTR, there were bound to be other vaious rebellions. We see the YTR as negative as the Han was a long thriving dynasty and now that the rebellion occured, most people, especially the heroes of rotk that we talk today about, will be 'loyal' and defend against the rebellion. Thus, most people actually supports the Han. However, it does not mean that the YTR is overly positive as well.
I actually posted something like this in SlickSlicer's other thread titled 'Depopulation'.
No one can stop the flow of time. But a moment captured in the frame of the heart will never disappear. That will be shown at the bottom of their hearts, and will always give off a great feeling. Sweet...and bitter.
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Re: Why do we view the YTR as negative?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:46 pm

Are they viewed as negative? Not really noticed, as they are right at the start I don't think they are noticed at all. History looking at them negatively is relatively simple, the gentry who tended to rule things hardly wanted to encourage mass revolt of peasants who wanted to strip them of their lands. Add in Han loveathon and the Turbans being unsuccessful, odds wer ehardly in Turbans' favor of getting a good review.

I do think it is harsh to say the Han didn't attempt to deal with several of the problems, the Court did try to help the area's suffering disaster but resources were rather stretched by the battles in Liang and several disasters. If anything, I think little about the Turbans though they had some decent generals like Bo Cai, Zhang Liang, Zhang Mancheng but their chances were always small and their impact overrated.
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
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Re: Why do we view the YTR as negative?

Unread postby hahaguy » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:18 am

Probably because they failed.

Seriously. I remember somewhere the quote "History is written by the victors"

Rebels who failed in their rebellion will probably be remembered as a group of over-ambitious people bringing chaos to a peaceful society, and being looked down as villains.

On the other hand, people who succeeded in their rebellion will be looked upon as people fighting for freedom and justice; heroes. E.g. Americans fighting against the British.

If they succeeded, I believe they'll be seen as the 'good guys' instead...
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Re: Why do we view the YTR as negative?

Unread postby James » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:47 pm

There is a good reason for someone familiar with Three Kingdoms history to view them as a negative influence. Regardless of their founding principles or teachings, the result was swarm of bandits who was surely guilty of all the wonderful little crimes—theft, murder, rape—nearly everywhere they went. They had a legitimate beef with the Han, but once they became a disorganized band of armed men, they became a destructive force.
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Re: Why do we view the YTR as negative?

Unread postby Lonely_dragon » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:35 am

James wrote:There is a good reason for someone familiar with Three Kingdoms history to view them as a negative influence. Regardless of their founding principles or teachings, the result was swarm of bandits who was surely guilty of all the wonderful little crimes—theft, murder, rape—nearly everywhere they went. They had a legitimate beef with the Han, but once they became a disorganized band of armed men, they became a destructive force.


I kind of agree with James here... The YT first started as groups that helps the people, but once ambition fills in the minds of Zhang Jiao they quickly become armed men who done as they please and that is a destructive force. Added with Dong Zhuo spice and warlords' ambition the corrupt Han Crumbles quickly. So I think the YTR is one of the catalyst to end the glorious 400 years of the Han Dynasty.
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Re: Why do we view the YTR as negative?

Unread postby Zappa » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:42 am

Yes indead but one of the reasons why the YT could gain so many followers was the corupt Han Dynasty I think it would have fallen even without the rebellion. It just needed someone like Dong Zhuo to destroy it cmpletly at the end Dong is more responsible for Hans fall then the YT are.
As the world changes,war comes and goes and with it might,wealth,right,freedom and land changes its owner,however the only thing that will always remain is the death,that comes with it.
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Re: Why do we view the YTR as negative?

Unread postby Shritzu » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:41 am

...And the way of peace was just an illusion of purpose?Rather than the hope of an new era without corruption,it served to veil the ambitious aptitude of one man and his followers?.... zhang jiao in a desperate attempt to gather forces did'nt filter his followers properly...and as a result, each ambitous in thier own right took advantage of what was around them-the treasure of a crumbling dynasty...a rebellion started the mighty and still corrupt america,....Rebellions are to be judged by thier orcastraters and thier outcome-The yellow turbans failed so thier rebellion was bad, it did not bring the FULLFILLED
promise of change with it's wrought destruction.....
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Re: Why do we view the YTR as negative?

Unread postby the glorious sun jian » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:48 pm

The excution of it was the worst part .I mean , you give people some hope , raise and army , gather both men of abillities and normal people and then you start doing it entirly the wrong way .If YTR took a longer time , I can see it succeeding .I am from those who think that it is viewed as negative , because it failed .And it failed because of how poorly it was excuted .
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