Hao Zhao

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Hao Zhao

Unread postby hall_of_famer02 » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:20 pm

I firmly believe he was very underrated. He was a very capable commander, especially in defense. He was made famous for the defense of Chencang against Kongming's attacks despite numeous tactics. He was also strongly recommended by Sima Yi to defend Chencang, seen in the text,
" Sima Yi, correctly guessing that Zhuge would move his army to Chencang, recommended Hao Zhao to build fortifications there, and said confidently to the Emperor of Wei that Hao Zhao would render Chencang "absolutely secure." Zhao was promoted to General Who Guards the West, and was sent to Chencang."
It can be seen that his abilities were so feared even by Zhuge Liang seen in the text,
"However, following the death of Wang Shuang, Hao Zhao fell ill and was nearing death. When Zhuge Liang heard the news, he cried out in joy and immediately begun his third Northern Expedition."
His death brought joy to Zhuge Liang as it meant that he could take Chencang with ease without Hao Zhao defending it. It is also said that Hao Zhao's death brought fear to Wei general, Guo Huai.
I believe he should receive more recognition as even the god-like Zhuge Liang could not take Chencang with Hao Zhao defending it. What do you guys think about Hao Zhao?
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Re: Hao Zhao

Unread postby Tan_Binrui » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:51 pm

A lot of what you've mentioned is from the novel. Historically, Hao Zhao was involved in more than the defense of Chen Cang. After his defense, he went on the accomplish quite a few other things that aren't specified by his biography.

I wish I could just link you to his biography, but it appears 3kingdoms is down.

There have been a few mentions of him, where I am (not yet at Chen Cang) in the Chronicles, mostly dealing with Liangzhou barbarians.

Other than that, he played a fairly middle role compared to other high profile officers.

As far as his "rating", Koei decided to keep him more than competent in their games, so I don't think he's underrated.
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Re: Hao Zhao

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:29 pm

In the novel, Liang does take Cheng Cang in a later campaign, against a ill Hao Zhao. In history, Liang isn't godlike but the problem with Hao Zhao is we know so little about his work outside of that seige. If anything, he is a tad overatted for my liking, there were others who made good stands (Lou Xian, Liu Xun, Hou Jun springing to mind) and they have far less fame. Koei also gives too high stats for my liking
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Re: Hao Zhao

Unread postby Antiochus » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:54 am

But then it is not entirely uncommon for people to overrate someone who simply made an impressive but short (though somewhat good) appearance on the pages of the 3K history. Think of Hua Xiong, Ma Chao and Sun Jian for exemple.
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Re: Hao Zhao

Unread postby Shah Muhammad III » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:33 am

personally i'm a proud member of the Hao Zhao fan club, but wining against Zhuge Liang is no small feat, the seige even made him lose his temper, but still Hao Zhao had some fame before Chencang against barbarians, but i heard he only stopped Zhuge's 20,000 man army with 1000 instead of 30,000 vs 3000 thats in the book, that surprises me considering this novel is pro-shu
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Re: Hao Zhao

Unread postby DaiSin » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:59 pm

I must say that I am also pretty stupified (in a good way) by the fact that Hao Zhao was able to hold off Zhuge Liang and friends with such a tiny force to work with. He must have been a pretty sound comander to earn the praise of not only his comrades but Zhuge Liang himself, who is said to have deeply respected Zhao even in his death.

Furthermore, I was going to create a topic dedicated to him as well, but it seems you beat me to it. :wink:
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Re: Hao Zhao

Unread postby Terranigma Freak » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:31 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:In the novel, Liang does take Cheng Cang in a later campaign, against a ill Hao Zhao. In history, Liang isn't godlike but the problem with Hao Zhao is we know so little about his work outside of that seige. If anything, he is a tad overatted for my liking, there were others who made good stands (Lou Xian, Liu Xun, Hou Jun springing to mind) and they have far less fame. Koei also gives too high stats for my liking


The games are more novel based than history really. Sure, they add a little history here and there, but the influence from the novel is felt far greater in the games. By the novel standards, Kong Ming IS godly. The man can fart and cure cancer. No one except Sima Yi, Jian Wei, and Hao Zhao has defeated Kong Ming, so by that standard, Hao Zhao is very underrated.
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Re: Hao Zhao

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:22 pm

It is one battle, no man deserves 80's stats for one battle.
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Re: Hao Zhao

Unread postby Terranigma Freak » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:57 pm

Most people couldn't last a single battle against Kong Ming, let alone defeat him. Plus, even though it's one battle, Kong Ming actually used multiple plans that all end in failure. Don't forget that Hao Zhao was actually out numbered pretty badly in the novel.

Take a look at Zhou Yu and his repeated attempts to "outsmart" Kong Ming. Kong Ming would just laugh at his ass even after death. Kong Ming had to pay respects to Hao Zhao after his death.
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Re: Hao Zhao

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:37 pm

Having beaten Zhao with one of his weaker ploys. Ok as Hao Zhao is sick, I won't count that one but still one siege of goodness is enough to make him better then Hou Jun (or held out longer and smashed opposing force) or Liu Xun?

Zhou Yu deserves high stats (as high as he gets is another matter) because he won Chi Bi, major part (in novel) of Wu's conquest and defeats Cao Ren.
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