Better Officer: Lu Meng or Zhou Yu?

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Better Officer: Lu Meng or Zhou Yu?

Unread postby Fengxiao » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:57 pm

While I haven't gotten as far in the novels as I wish, so far I'd say Zhou Yu was a better tactician and strategist. But who would make a better officer all together? It's said that Lu Meng was already an accomplished warrior, plus after his studies became a famed tactician. But Zhou Yu helped greatly with the seizing of the lands of Wu and Chi Bi. Now, if we combined the rumours of their prowess and knowledge, with actual (as far as the book goes) feats, who would end up on top in the end?

(My apologies to the moderators and everyone else if this was posted in the wrong section.)
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Re: Better Officer: Lu Meng or Zhou Yu?

Unread postby Jordan » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:32 am

I give it to Zhou Yu. If it was between Lu Xun and Zhou Yu though, I'd say Lu Xun.
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Re: Better Officer: Lu Meng or Zhou Yu?

Unread postby hahaguy » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:19 pm

Zhou Yu would probably win on water, but he'll lose on land. Lu Meng is more well-rounded.

Though my favourite Wu tactician is still Lu Xun!
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Re: Better Officer: Lu Meng or Zhou Yu?

Unread postby Tan_Binrui » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:40 pm

Since it seems this is a novel-based discussion, the comparison probably goes to Zhou Yu.

Given the difference between the two's accomplishments, you'd have to go through them piece by piece.
Lu Meng was a better warrior. It's how he started his career, it's how he finished it, too. Zhou Yu did not charge the walls and jump ships himself.
Zhou Yu was the better commander. Lu Meng's plans and actions were largely dependant on his own activity, while Zhou Yu was able to enlist and take advantage of the talents of others. When Lu Meng raided Jingzhou, it was largely his own efforts that saw the province fall. When Zhou Yu invaded Jingzhou, his command of Gan Ning and others led to a quick encirclement of Cao Ren, although that encirclement lasted a whole year.
Zhou Yu was the better strategist. His plans had far reaching consequences that he planned for. Had it not been for his death and Lu Su's unplanned accordance with Liu Bei's wellbeing, Wu would have been the major power that cut Liu Bei from the womb of his conception. Lu Meng's plans, though just as successful, seemed comparatively shortsighted.

That's why I would say Zhou Yu was the better officer. He gave orders, and gave them well. He planned for the wellbeing of the country many steps ahead of his peers, and had the ability to command to back it up. Lu Meng was a more than capable officer, but I would prefer a Zhou Yu to a Lu Meng.
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Re: Better Officer: Lu Meng or Zhou Yu?

Unread postby Fengxiao » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:21 pm

Yes this is about the novel. Sorry if my English is hard to understand, it is not my first language. My vote goes for Lu Meng, while Zhou Yu was obviously the smarter of the two Lu Meng was also smart. Zhou Yu didn't have a balance of the two, his knowledge greatly overshadowed his martial power while Lu Meng had a balance of strength and intelligence. The main factor for this is how they served Wu. While Zhou Yu had the right intentions and often helped Wu, he let his jealousy of Zhuge Liang get in the way of showing his true potential. He was killed before his prime by his own emotions, though not directly a miscalculation on his part he did let Wu down by dying so quickly. Lu Meng, as far as the books go he dies due to the possession of his body by the spirit of Guan Yu, no one can predict how the heavens work so it was in no way a fault of his. Thus putting their deaths into account Lu Meng ends up on top for me.
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Re: Better Officer: Lu Meng or Zhou Yu?

Unread postby ZhouTai50 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:50 pm

My vote goes to Lu Meng, who I consider the best of Wu's Grand Commanders. The man was an extremely talented commander and his planning is top notch as well, as seen during the Jingzhou Campaign, battles with Wei, etc. Probably the main thing that makes me think of him as superior, though, is that Zhou Yu's accomplishments were not solely, or even largely, his. At Red Cliffs, it was Huang Gai's plan that ended up being the reason for victory. Zhou Yu gets credit for holding Sun Quan's court together and getting them to oppose Cao Cao, but the actual victory belongs to Huang Gai.
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Re: Better Officer: Lu Meng or Zhou Yu?

Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:21 pm

Zhou Yu, no doubt for me. He was more a general then stratergist but he was still better. I blame Lu Meng for the death of Wu and his shortsightedness in taking Jing :P
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Re: Better Officer: Lu Meng or Zhou Yu?

Unread postby ZhouTai50 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:29 pm

I wouldn't say he was necessarily short sighted in taking Jing. The area offered a good point for Wu to strike into Wei. However, his early death made it that whatever plans he may have had never came to fruition, and Wu lacked another great offensive commander to lead that attack north without him. Some say that the taking of Jing ruined whatever chance Shu and Wu had to take out Wei, but I disagree. After Yiling and Liu Bei's death, the two nations did reconcile. But, like I said, by this point Lu Meng was long dead and Lu Xun couldn't fill his shoes when it came to invading territory. Had he lived to this point, I think we would have seen some significant gains made by the two nations working together. Would it be enough to take down Wei? Maybe, maybe not, but I do think they would have had much more success than they really did.
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Re: Better Officer: Lu Meng or Zhou Yu?

Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:40 pm

ZhouTai50 wrote:I wouldn't say he was necessarily short sighted in taking Jing. The area offered a good point for Wu to strike into Wei. However, his early death made it that whatever plans he may have had never came to fruition, and Wu lacked another great offensive commander to lead that attack north without him. Some say that the taking of Jing ruined whatever chance Shu and Wu had to take out Wei, but I disagree. After Yiling and Liu Bei's death, the two nations did reconcile. But, like I said, by this point Lu Meng was long dead and Lu Xun couldn't fill his shoes when it came to invading territory. Had he lived to this point, I think we would have seen some significant gains made by the two nations working together. Would it be enough to take down Wei? Maybe, maybe not, but I do think they would have had much more success than they really did.


Yes but they needed Liu Bei if they were ever to kill Wei. I still say that a three way strike, Liu Bei, Zhuge Liang and Lu Meng was the only chance of victory they had by this time.
“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” ― Nelson Mandela
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Re: Better Officer: Lu Meng or Zhou Yu?

Unread postby the glorious sun jian » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:52 am

Sun Fin wrote:Zhou Yu, no doubt for me. He was more a general then stratergist but he was still better. I blame Lu Meng for the death of Wu and his shortsightedness in taking Jing :P



Lu Meng will be blamed for Jing to the end of earth :lol:

Wu survived the longest .

Lu Meng was not just better than Zhou Yu as a warrior but as a commander also .Zhou Yu’s defeating Cao Ren was based on Meng’s plan .Zhou Yu’s Chi Pi was based of the plan of Huang Gai .Lu Meng defeated Cao Cao on Ru Xu even after the defeat of He Fei he also took whole Jing with an almost perfect millitary plan .Yeah taking Jing wasnt perfect when it comes to politics but still far greater than Zhou Yu’s deeds .

Sp , Lu Meng .
لا اله الا الله محمد عبده ورسوله
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