Ravages of Time-A more realistic depiction of SGYY?

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Ravages of Time-A more realistic depiction of SGYY?

Unread postby Warhawk_1 » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:31 am

Bsed on the fact that there's no clear forum for the question I have, I'm going to assume that this one is the most appropriate. I'm curious if anybody else is a fan of this manhua series. I at first thought it was one of the many "clone" series based off of SGYY that exist throughout Asia but was pleasantly surprised to discover that it was actually pretty good (after the very trippy first few chapters which are somewhat random) in its take on the events of SGYY or SGZ depending on your view in that it makes a much more cynical, realistic (in my opinion) narrative of people's ambitions, motivations, and actions during the Three Kingdoms period.

In case you don't know what I'm talking about, you can read the Wikipedia summary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravages_of_Time#Pang_Tong.27s_debut.2C_Alliance_against_Cao_Cao.2C_and_Massacre_of_Sima_clan_.28Vol_23_-_25.29

http://www.onemanga.com/The_Ravages_of_Time/

Basically, my question is how many of you think that there is merit to the ideas of "inaccurate history" which often are alluded to in the book? One very prominent example is that of Zhang Fei. In SGYY he's a strong, brave, drunk and violent-tempered idiot. In Ravages of Time they stick to what is much more historically-known which is that Zhang Fei was actually very good at art, calligraphy and was considered a sort of "meticulous brute".

Another great example is in the characterization of Lu Bu, who they actually make him one of the smartest people in the series in Ravages. When I checked it with my Chinese History Professor who received a PHD from Harvard, he said that historically, Lu Bu was actually an extremely talented strategist and tactician, but suffered mainly from the problem of having too terrible of a reputation to mantain alliances.

The basic thesis behind the idea, is that history is utterly forged by the victors to justify their victory afterwards. Cao Cao, whose father dies of illness, fabricates that he was murdered for example. In a similar vein, Liu Bei argues that there are no incompetent emperors, only corrupt officials and bureaucracies which hold the Emperor hostage and dont let him exercise "righteous" rule. And at this point, after having taken a semester of Imperial Chinese History, I find that these patterns are much more likely to have been what happened and seem to be acknowledged in most papers on Chinese History.

So, my question is (either if you read the series or just the Wikipedia summary), what's your take on this view of SGYY characters and their actions?
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Re: Ravages of Time-A more realistic depiction of SGYY?

Unread postby 1mandynasty » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:14 am

well this series are quite interesting to read and i actually quite enjoyed the way they portrait sun ce cos it's makes it seems to be something a person would had done at the chaos times but i do feel a little uncomfortable about how the author makes diao chan death :| overall it's interesting and at some occasions of the story seems quite realistic .
Last edited by 1mandynasty on Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ravages of Time-A more realistic depiction of SGYY?

Unread postby the hidden dragon » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:57 pm

Wow...i am a bloody fan of this series too...it is also this comic that i am glued and hardcore of San Gou !!

I like the part he protrayed the Eight Elite Advisor...of cos we still dont know who is the eighth one as the 7 we already knew (zhuge liang, pang tong, xun yu, jia xu, zhou yu, guo jia and Yuan Fang (fictional))...maybe the eighth is Lu Xun...?!

Of cos, like San Guo Yan Yi, the story revolves around Liu Bei and his 2 brothers..and zhuge liang and also the shu kingdom...

this series seems to revolves around sima yi and zhao yun....

wonderful storie...and very logical and realistic in some point too.
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Re: Ravages of Time-A more realistic depiction of SGYY?

Unread postby Zhilong » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:33 pm

Warhawk_1 wrote:Another great example is in the characterization of Lu Bu, who they actually make him one of the smartest people in the series in Ravages. When I checked it with my Chinese History Professor who received a PHD from Harvard, he said that historically, Lu Bu was actually an extremely talented strategist and tactician, but suffered mainly from the problem of having too terrible of a reputation to mantain alliances.


Lu Bu's martial ability was above his mental capacities. Time and again he is played like a pawn & his crappy reputation is his own doing. Sometimes he does make some good manouvres but he cannot hold them for long nor expand them. Contrast him with Liu Bei who oft seeks refuge under different lords but most of them find them unable to kill him due to his good reputation.

To say that Lu Bu was an extremely talented strategist is very hard to support with his SGZ bio.
"You weaver of mats! You plaiter of straw shoes! You have been smart enough to get possession of a large region and elbow your way into the ranks of the nobles. I was just going to attack you, and now you dare to scheme against me! How I detest you!"
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Re: Ravages of Time-A more realistic depiction of SGYY?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:19 pm

I would question why Cao Cao would want to lie about Cao Song's death, he already would have six million excuses to invade Tao Qian. As Liu Bei was nominally fighting for the Han, insulting the Emperor's tended to be a bit of a no no so that I can believe. Certainly agree with Zhilong and he made a massive blunder failing to secure Yan from Cao Cao, he had a fair degree of intelligence as a commander and had his moments but so erratic.
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Re: Ravages of Time-A more realistic depiction of SGYY?

Unread postby the hidden dragon » Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:40 pm

I think for this Ravage of time series...what the author trying to depict is, in war time, or battle field, there is no real good or bad guys..

people like Cao cao who in SGYY is seems like a bad egg, but in Ravage of time, he is being protrayed in another angle..

and many other characters which also have their moment of reluctance due to the turmoil and chaotic era...
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Re: Ravages of Time-A more realistic depiction of SGYY?

Unread postby Jordan » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:10 pm

Zhang Fei supposedly didn't treat his subordinates very well. I think that's mostly what his depiction in the novel is based on.
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Re: Ravages of Time-A more realistic depiction of SGYY?

Unread postby Gongsun Idiot » Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:33 pm

I dont like the idea of those "Handicapped Warriors"... Its not that I do not like handicapped people, but I prefer open field battles more than ass-assins.
Like most manga and manhua "Ravages of Time" has cool character designs and some kind of epic storys, but it suffers fro making the enemys stronger and stronger, as long as the story proceeds.
Cao Cao was one of the most friendly persons of his time. He was simply ... missunderstood.
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Re: Ravages of Time-A more realistic depiction of SGYY?

Unread postby the hidden dragon » Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:14 pm

its true that there are certain part in this series abit extreme...and "unbeliveable"..

but the way he bring the story out..is splendid....maybe he got abit too obsesssed with making the story and character abit too dark sided...and those art of war also abit extreme..

but overall, its great piece of work..
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Re: Ravages of Time-A more realistic depiction of SGYY?

Unread postby 1mandynasty » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:10 pm

I did seem to browse in a website before and seen about some hk director wanting to make this manhua into a movie 8-)
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