Why do people accuse Sima Yi of being a traitor?

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Why do people accuse Sima Yi of being a traitor?

Unread postby Terranigma Freak » Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:50 pm

Seriously, I don't get it. He killed Cao Shuang, big deal. Cao Shuang was destroying Wei from within. I believe the novel's pretty accurate about the corruption in Wei caused by Cao Shuang. When Sima Yi did take over, there were no records (historical or otherwise) of him doing anything but serve Cao Fan. Yeah, I do think he went a little far by trying to Xiahou Ba. That was his biggest mistake, but outside of that, Sima Yi just did his job. Now Sima Shi and Sima Zhao's another matter, but as far as I can see, Sima Yi got a bad rep from his sons.
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Re: Why do people accuse Sima Yi of being a traitor?

Unread postby James » Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:44 pm

I always thought it had more to do with video games.
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Re: Why do people accuse Sima Yi of being a traitor?

Unread postby Terranigma Freak » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:42 pm

The games? Unless you play the PUK version, there's no way to know his honor/ambition rating.
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Re: Why do people accuse Sima Yi of being a traitor?

Unread postby ZhouTai50 » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:59 pm

The games have to do with the DW series, in which Sima Yi plots and betrays Wei and the Cao family to set up his own rule.

Outside of that, I think that people just don't recognize what sort of threat Cao Shuang posed to Wei. Had he continued, Wei would have been driven into the ground. Or, perhaps, people associate his son's ambitions with his own, as they occasionally do with Cao Cao and Cao Pi as well.
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Re: Why do people accuse Sima Yi of being a traitor?

Unread postby James » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:42 pm

Yeah, in some Koei games Sima Yi gets the ambitious treatment. And in others, like Destiny of an Emperor, he is billed as an outright traitor. He beheads Cao Pi upon his introduction, as you know well! Sima Yi also gets the traitor treatment in stories, but I can't help but to wonder if it call comes right back down to games. He's certainly no traitor in the novel or history.
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Re: Why do people accuse Sima Yi of being a traitor?

Unread postby Terranigma Freak » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:01 pm

Oh yeah, I complete forgot about that in Destiny of An Emperor. Damn, and we were just talking about that game too.

Outside of that, I think that people just don't recognize what sort of threat Cao Shuang posed to Wei. Had he continued, Wei would have been driven into the ground.


But the novel did do a good job describing all of Cao Shuang's misdeeds. I mean, it's not like Sima Yi suddenly woke up and decided to take power from his. The novel built up Cao Shuang's crimes. I just don't understand why people over look that part.

Yeah, in some Koei games Sima Yi gets the ambitious treatment.


Yeah, like in XI, Sima Yi looks kind of evil, but in X, Sima Yi looks very peaceful.
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Re: Why do people accuse Sima Yi of being a traitor?

Unread postby CaTigeReptile » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:47 pm

Well, the novel does show that deposing Cao Shuang was the right thing to do, but then again, Sima Yi is supposed to be Zhuge Liang's arch nemesis so anything he does must be evil.

Other than that I'd say that yes, it's mostly his son that he's mistaken for. The games just build on that theme.
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Re: Why do people accuse Sima Yi of being a traitor?

Unread postby Mikhail » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:57 pm

I don't think he's a traitor. As many of you know, I am a big fan of Sima Yi and his clan.

I would even like to take it one step further. I don't think Sima Yi nor his any of his clan are traitors at all. My justification is simple: it is a case of the survival of the fittest. At the time of Sima Yi's claim to power, the kingdom of Wei was going down the tubes and failing with bad leadership. While Wei was still able to keep the alliance of Wu and Shu at bay during Cao Shuang's reign of "terror", I would venture to guess that if this trend would continue, Wei would have fallen from the inside - similar to that of the situation in Shu.

With the Sima takeover, it allowed the failing Wei state to once again reach heights that it saw during the peak of the Cao era. It allowed the state to regain its strength and challenge and defeat its enemies. To the people of the kingdom of Wei, I would think they saw it also as a succession as evidenced by the simplicity of the takeover as well as the lack of real opposition (at the time - as I know of) to the Sima takeover and the creation of the Jing dynasty.

But of course, this is just my spin on it...

If you were to blame anyone for how the Sima clan were portrayed, you wouldn't have to look further than LGZ. He's the one that spun the image of Sima Yi into this evil traitor that the KOEI games have utilized.
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Re: Why do people accuse Sima Yi of being a traitor?

Unread postby Sun Fin » Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:59 pm

Well I never played the Koei games as Sima Yi so I always viewed him as a traitor because he turned his back on the Han dynasty. Same as most of Wei to be honest... :lol:
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Re: Why do people accuse Sima Yi of being a traitor?

Unread postby Mikhail » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:26 am

Sun Fin wrote:Well I never played the Koei games as Sima Yi so I always viewed him as a traitor because he turned his back on the Han dynasty. Same as most of Wei to be honest... :lol:


That's not fair... considering almost everyone at the time turned their backs on the dynasty. Officers of Wei were just a bit more open about their intentions than others.
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