Zhang He

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Zhang He

Unread postby Phuc » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:22 pm

Why was he given so much credit? What's so great about him?

I mean, his prowess on the battlefield was remarkable, but he failed every task he was given. Also, his temper usually got the better of him...
My English isn't very good, so forgive me if there are any grammar/spelling mistakes in my posts.
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Unread postby Shi Tong » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:04 pm

*clears throat*

Defeating Gongsun Zan, Zhang He’s achievements were numerous.


Zhang He said to Yuan Shao: “Duke Cao’s armies are elite, they would surely defeat Chunyu Qiong and the others. After Chunyu Qiong is defeated, the army will scatter. Instead send quick reinforcements to aid.” Guo Tu remarked: “Zhang He’s plans are bad. Instead, let us attack the original source [referring to Cao Cao’s camp], power will surely return. This explanation is why reinforcements should not be sent.” Zhang He then replied: “Duke Cao’s encampment is solidified, it is hard to uproot. If Chunyu Qiong’s camp is captured we will be depleted and captured.”


Correct in this instance ^ Chunyu Qiong was defeated and Yuan Shao in turn.

Guo Tu was ashamed and praised Zhang He: “Zhang He’s advice was true, his words were modest.”


Zhang He told Yuan Shao: “My lord can’t win, do not do battle with Duke Cao. Secretly dispatch light cavalry towards the south to regroup the army to save defeat.” Yuan Shao didn’t approve.


^again, sound advice.

Afterwards [Zhang he] went on to attack Ye, also attacking Yuan Tan at Bo Hai; other generals surrounded Yong Nu and defeated him. Attack was then on the city of Liu (liu cheng) along with Zhang Liao accompanying as the vanguard. After success [Zhang He] was transferred to General who Pacifies Tribes (ping di jiang jun). He had a separate attack on Guan Cheng at Dong Lai. Along with Zhang Liao, [Zhang He] successfully defeated Chen Lan, Mei Cheng and others. [Zhang He] was there for the defeat of Ma Chao and Han Sui at Wei Nan. Surrounding An Ding, surrender of Yang Qiu. [Zhang He] and Xiahou Yuan went to attack Liang Xing and Wu Dou Di tribe. Again defeating Ma Chao and pacifying Song Jian. When [Cao Cao] invaded Zhang Lu, he first dispatched Zhang He to command several troops to attack Liang Xing and the Di King, Dou Mao. [Cao Cao] then entered Han Zhong through the scattered gate. Again he first dispatched Zhang He to lead five thousand troops to secure the roads ahead. Reaching Yang Ping, Zhang Lu surrendered. [Cao Cao] returned [back to the capital] leaving Zhang He, Xiahou Yuan and others to defend Han Zhong against Liu Bei.


^^ Hate to say it, but this all looks suspiciously like success to me for Zhang He.

Zhang He leading an army, captured and received the surrender of the two commanderies Ba Dong (Eastern Ba) and Ba Xi (Western Ba); adding the two population into Han Zhong.


This sounds pretty good too.

Advancing towards Dang Qu, he met resistance from Zhang Fei, and withdrew to Nan Zheng.


First setback?

At this point Zhang He and Xiahou Yuan get night raided, and Yuan gets killed. Zhang He retreats to regroup.

He does stop Liu Bei from actually performing a night raid on his camp.

Guo Huai ordered the remnants of the army thus: “General Zhang [referring to Zhang He] is a renowned general in the kingdom; one that Liu Bei fears. Today we are in a perilous state, if not for general Zhang, we would not be safe.” Thus Zhang He was made the commander of the [remaining] army. Zhang He straightened out the army, tightening the troops. The various officers complying with his orders felt at eased. [Cao Cao] was in Chang An, he dispatched orders to help relieve Zhang He. [Cao Cao] personally arrived in Han Zhong. Liu Bei didn’t dare to do battle so he stayed defending at Gao Shan. [Cao Cao] withdrew the various generals out of Han Zhong while Zhang He returned to station at Chen Cang.


Sounds again like Zhang He was there to hold the fort until relief arrived and did so successfully.

Zhang He and Cao Zhen pacified the areas of Lu Shui Hu and Dong Qiang. Both Zhang He and Cao Zhen, by decree, were made Chao Xu Gong. Zhang He was then dispatched south along with Xiahou Shang to attack Jiang Ling. Zhang He with other officers crossed the river and camped at Wu. [Cao Pi] immediately positioned to station at Jing Zhou, along with Sima Xuan Wang (IV) attacked Sun Quan’s general, Liu Ah Deng. They chased Liu Ah Deng all the way to Qu Kou where the battled the latter and defeated him.


More success..

Zhang He cut off [Ma Su’s] water supply and attacked, dealing the latter a crushing defeat. The prefectures of Nan An, Tian Shui and An Ding revolted to Zhuge Liang. Zhang He pacified all three.


hmm..

Zhang He knowing that Zhuge Liang’s army had no grain, won’t be able to attack. So he spoke thus: “Without our arrival, Zhuge Liang will retreat; according to calculations, Zhuge Liang’s supplies won’t last any longer than ten days.” Zhang He travelled by day and night towards Nan Zheng; Zhuge Liang retreated.


Zhuge Liang again attacked via Qi Shan. Zhang He was ordered west towards Lue Yang while Zhuge Liang returned to protect Qi Shan. Zhang He pursued up to Mu Men where he battled Zhuge Liang’s army. [Zhang He] was hit by a flying arrow in the right knee and died (4). He was given a posthumous title of Marquis Zhuang. His son, Zhang Xiong inherited. Zhang He had previous merits and deeds so the Brilliant Emperor (Cao Rui) divided his house; bestowing upon his four sons Marquises. The sons were given the feudal rank of Marquis of Guan Nei.


Looks like success to the end.

So.. err. why dont you like him?
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Unread postby MarvelousLingTong!!!!!! » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:04 pm

Looks like Shi Tong basically said everything I could have thougt of. He had a very successful career, and was one of my favorite Wei generals.
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Unread postby Guan Yan » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:23 am

Poor zhang He is betrayed a quite a weird general in the game dynasty warriors isnt he they are insulting his memory.
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:16 am

No there not, they made an entertaining game character who admires beauty and is eccentric which is possibly a twist on his historical love of music and scholarly activities that were deemed unusual for a general

Shi Tong, Zhang He's advice to Yuan Shao may still have failed. On the whole, he comes across to me as a good but not great general, clever, skilled but not superb
“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”
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Unread postby Guan Yan » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:21 am

Well did zhang he where cloths like a girl and wear pink and purple :wink:
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:54 am

Did Pang Tong look like a moth? Did Zhang He slaughter 500's per battle?
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Unread postby Guan Yan » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:10 am

No but why make zhang He look like a fairy.
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Unread postby Shi Tong » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:44 am

Because it's made up, he didn't look like a fairy.

Fair comment on the advice part. I suppose all we can say is that the other advice given by Guo Tu did fail. I personally think that if Yuan Shao had supported Chunyu Qiong he would have had a better chance at Guan Du.

Either way I think your assessment is pretty spot on there. He was a great general, but probably not the smartest or the best. I think he's a level below someone like Zhang Liao for instance.

The ideas behind his being eccentric or loving of poetry and art do come up in his SGZ bio where it says he was a lover of poetry.. they probably exaggerated it and decided to give him pink robes or something.

However, as Dongy said, does Zhuge Liang actually carry a feather fan with him everywhere? Did Guan Yu invent a magical Guan Dao weapon? No..
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Unread postby Guan Yan » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:49 am

it is made up but what if zhang he was around and understood the world wear in today and saw himself as a fairy weirdo he would not like it very much :lol:

In reality he was a good general and warrior who should be admired like Guan yu or Liu Bei in that game.
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