the mighty xu huang

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the mighty xu huang

Unread postby NOD » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:12 pm

i was thinking about him one day and i was thinking of al the battles he was in and won.... and i came up with a question.... has he ever failed a task that was given to him??
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Unread postby Tan_Binrui » Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:25 pm

I'm sure you could find one, but it would be relatively unimportant compared to the many large tasks he accomplished.
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Unread postby Mikhail » Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:37 pm

You know, I too have really yet to see much wrong with Xu Huang. Which leads me to a question. I know that there are people that consider Zhang Liao far greater than any of the other of Wei's 5 "Tigers". I've seen some arguments that say that Zhang He is the only one that could possibly challenge Zhang Liao for that top spot. Why then, doesn't Xu Huang get more praise?
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Unread postby Tan_Binrui » Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:35 am

Corgan wrote:You know, I too have really yet to see much wrong with Xu Huang. Which leads me to a question. I know that there are people that consider Zhang Liao far greater than any of the other of Wei's 5 "Tigers". I've seen some arguments that say that Zhang He is the only one that could possibly challenge Zhang Liao for that top spot. Why then, doesn't Xu Huang get more praise?


I'm not sure. Zhang Liao gets the "top spot" mostly because of his success at He Fei. In general, I would put Xu Huang and Yu Jin above Zhang Liao.

Although, your comment on Zhang He confuses me a bit. As far as I know, he and Zhang Liao seemed pretty similar, except Zhang He was put in the position where those traits proved to hurt him more than they did help him.
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Unread postby Guan Yan » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:16 am

Yu jin better as a general then Zhang liao :shock: not only is Zhang liao better as a general but a superb warrior and very loyal he would never surrender to guan like yu jin did.
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Unread postby NOD » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:07 am

putting aside his surrender, i beleive his merit before this event were good, now i know xu huang didnt do anything as "radical" as zhang liao but from my knowledge that was zhang's only spotlight moment were as xu huang was continued to be relied on such as, breaking guan yu's siege, and then later takeing shangyong from liu bei and defeating zhuge jin of wu. plus he had many more contributions these examples were his later years.
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Unread postby Guan Yan » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:09 am

zhang liao to also had many battles in which Cao Cao relied heavily on him.
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Unread postby Tan_Binrui » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:40 am

guan yan wrote:zhang liao to also had many battles in which Cao Cao relied heavily on him.


Name them.

http://www.kongming.net/novel/sgz/yujin.php

This is Yu Jin's SGZ, in which much more, and more impressive, merits are credited to him. His surrender was expedient, and the smarter thing to do. Sullying his reputation because the novel makes him sound bad in of horrid respect to a man who was one of the pillars of Wei.
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Unread postby Guan Yan » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:44 am

Cao Cao said i cant beleive that Yu Jin would surrender and Pang de would out shine him Pang de died with honor, yu jin surrendered and later killed himself i think he killed himself out of shame.

he did he fei, guandu, and battled against yuan tan and yuan shang also against wuhan tribes in which all he was heavily relied on by Cao Cao theres more
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Unread postby NOD » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:33 am

this is the SGZ bio of xu huang (this is not my work taken from 3kingdoms.net forum) this i stumbled upon while going through mesage boards on that site (only to find out there a link here on this site that will take you directly to this >_<)


Biography of Xu Huang (? - 227)

Xu Huang styled Gongming, was a native of Yang Prefecture at the Hedong County. He was a Commandery Official. He followed the General of Chariots and Cavalry, Yang Feng to fight against Dong Zhuo. Because of his merits in battle, he was promoted to Chief Commandant of the Cavalry. When Li Jue and Guo Si was holding power in Chang An, he persuaded Yang Feng to escort the Emperor to Luoyang. Yang Feng followed his advice. When the Emperor crossed the river and reached An Yi, the Emperor appointed Xu Huang as Marquis of a Chief Commune. When they reached Luoyang, Han Xian and Dong Cheng was fighting for power almost everyday. Xu Huang persuaded Yang Feng to join the Cao Cao. Yang Feng agreed, but decided against it later. Cao Cao attacked Yang Feng at Liang and Xu Huang joined Cao Cao.

Cao Cao assigned Xu Huang troops and ordered him to attack the bandits at Quan Prefecture and Yuan Wu. Xu Huang was victorious and was promoted to Major-General. Xu Huang followed Cao Cao into battle against Lu Bu. Lu Bu's generals, Zhao Shu and Li Zou surrendered to Xu Huang. Xu Huang, together with Shi Huan, killed Kui Gu at Henei. Xu Huang also took part in the campaign against Liu Bei. In the campaign against Yan Liang, he took Baima and advanced till Yanjin, defeated Wen Chou's troops and was promoted to Lieutenant-General. Together with Cao Hong, they defeated Zhu Bi of Yinjiang. Together with Shi Huan, they attacked Yuan Shao's supplies at Gu Shi. Xu Huang had the most merits and was promoted to Marquis of a Chief Commune.

When Cao Cao surrounded Ye castle and captured Handan, the Prefect of Yiyang, Han Fan first pretended to surrender, but was secretly building up defenses. Cao Cao ordered Xu Huang to attack Yiyang. When Xu Huang arrived, he shot an arrow into the castle with a letter analyzing the pros of surrendering and the cons of fighting. Han Fan read the letter and regretted his actions and duly surrendered to Xu Huang. Following that, Xu Huang said to Cao Cao, now that Yuan Tan and Yuan Shang are still not defeated, people are still skeptical. If My Lord can accept Yiyang's surrender, many others will follow suit. If My Lord decides to massacre the people of Yiyang, other cities will surely fight to the death. Then Hebei will be hard to conquer. I hope My Lord will accept Yiyang's surrender, so that other cities will follow suit.?Cao Cao felt that Xu Huang's words made sense and agreed.

When Xu Huang attacked Mao castle, he set up an ambush and attacked and successfully captured three camps. Followed Cao Cao and defeated Yuan Tan's army at Nanpi. Xu Huang also led troops against the bandits in Pingyuan and was victorious. After the campaign against Tadun, Xu Huang was promoted to General Who Crosses the Wilderness. Xu Huang followed Cao Cao into battle in Jingzhou. While stationed at Fan castle, he defeated the bandits at Zhonglu, Linzu and Yi castle. Together with Man Chong, they attacked Guan Yu at Hanjin and in Jiangling, he and Cao Ren engaged Zhou Yu in battle. In the 15th year of Jian An (AD210), Xu Huang attacked the bandits in Taiyuan. Xu Huang captured the city of Daling and killed the bandit leader, Shang Yao.

When Han Sui and Ma Chao rebelled, Cao Cao sent Xu Huang to station his troops at Fenyin and to comfort the people of Hedong. When Xu Huang arrived, he ordered wine and meat to be distributed among the people, and also allowed them to pray to their ancestors.

When Cao Cao reached Tong Pass, he was afraid that there might be ambushed nearby while crossing the river and asked Xu Huang. Xu Huang replied,"My Lord has stationed troops here, and the enemies did not fortify Puban heavily. It shows that there are no capable strategists in their camp. I will lead elite troops to cross Pubanjin as vanguard and set up camp there for the army and to resist any attack that might come." Cao Cao was very happy with the plan and ordered Xu Huang to cross the river with 4000 troops. Liang Xing saw that Xu Huang was still building fortifications and attacked with more than 5000 troops, but was defeated by Xu Huang. Cao Cao managed to cross the river successfully and subsequently defeated Ma Chao.

Cao Cao sent Xu Huang and Xiahou Yuan to suppress the barbarians at Yumi and Qianzhu. Later, Xu Huang joined up with Cao Cao at Anding. When Cao Cao returned to Ye, he ordered Xu Huang and Xiahou Yuan to attack the remnants of Ma Chao's army in Fu and Xiayang. Liang Xing was killed and more than 3000 households surrendered. After following Cao Cao in the campaign against Zhang Lu, Xu Huang was sent to attack the barbarians at Du and Qiuyi. Both campaigns were successful and Xu Huang was promoted to General Who Pacifies Bandits. After that, Xu Huang freed Zhang Shun from his encirclement and defeated Chen Fu, the leader of the bandits.

Cao Cao returned to Ye and left Xu Huang and Xiahou Yuan to defend against Liu Bei. Liu Bei had sent Chen Shi to block the roads of Ma Ming Ge. Xu Huang defeated Chen Shi and sent him hiding in the mountains. The defeated army had nowhere to run and many of them jumped into the valley and died. When Cao Cao learned of what had happened, he was delighted and said,"This road is the only path leading to Hanzhong. Liu Bei had wanted to block the road so that no communications and supplies could reach us, and also to take Hanzhong. Your actions have foiled the enemies?plans. Well done."

Cao Cao then arrived at Yangping and led his troops out of Hanzhong. Cao Cao sent Xu Huang to reinforce Cao Ren against Guan Yu and Xu Huang set up camp at Wan. Guan Yu flooded Yu Jin's army and surrounded Cao Ren at Fan castle and Lu Chang at Xiangyang. As Xu Huang's troops were mostly new and inexperienced in battles, they were no match for Guan Yu. Xu Huang decided to lead his troops to set up camp at Yangling Slope. Cao Cao returned to the capital and instructed Xu Shang and Lu Jian to meet up with Xu Huang and instruct him to wait for the whole army before attacking.

The enemies camped at Yan castle and when Xu Huang arrived, he pretended to dig trenches to show that he was trying to block enemies?reinforcements. The enemies then set fire to their own camps and withdrew. Thus, Xu Huang captured Yan castle. At this time, both sides were very close to each other and Xu Huang moved his troops forward till they were only thirty feet apart. Before the 2 sides engaged, Cao Cao sent Yin Shu, Zhu Gai and others to reinforce Xu Huang. Guan Yu had stationed troops at Weitou and Shizhong. Xu Huang sent out rumors that he will be attacking Weitou. However, he attacked Shizhong. When Guan Yu saw that Shizhong could not hold out any longer, he personally led 5000 men to fight, but was defeated by Xu Huang. Xu Huang took advantage of the situation and gave chase. Xu Huang charged into the encirclement and defeated them. The enemies were terrified and some drowned in the River Mian. Cao Cao said."The bandits had surrounded the city heavily and you could still defeat them. I have led troops for 30 years, and also heave heard stories of famous generals, but none have charged right into an enemy's encirclement. Moreover, the encirclement at Fan castle was worse than the ones at Ju castle and Ji Mo castle. Your merits are even greater than that of Sun Wu and Rangju."

Xu Huang led his troops back to Mo Slope. Cao Cao went out seven miles to welcome him. Cao Cao set up dinner in Xu Huang's honour. Cao Cao offered Xu Huang wine and said,"It's all your merits that we are able to save Fan and Xiangyang."

At that time, all the troops were gathered and Cao Cao went to every camp to inspect the troops. All the soldiers would leave their camps to catch a glimpse of Cao Cao. Only Xu Huang's troops remained in their positions. Nobody dared to leave his position. When Cao Cao saw this, he said,"General Xu has the style of Zhou Yafu."

When Cao Pi was king, he promoted Xu Huang to General of the Right and Marquis of Luxiang. Later, when Cao Pi ascended the throne, Xu Huang was given the title Marquis of Yang and ordered him and Xiahou Shang to attack Liu Bei at Shangyong. They were victorious. Cao Pi ordered Xu Huang to guard Yangping and made him Marquis of Yangping. When Cao Rui ascended the throne, Xu Huang defeated Zhuge Jin of Wu and was rewarded with 200 households and including the previous rewards, he had a total of 3100 households. Later when Xu Huang was ill, he instructed not to have a grand funeral and to just bury him in simple, plain clothing.

Xu Huang was thrifty and cautious. Every time during battles, he would often send his scouts over long distances. Often, he would pretend to fight a losing battle, then suddenly turned on them and fight bravely and defeat the enemies. His troops often are so busy that they do not have time to even eat. Xu Huang always said,"People in the past have always complained that they cannot find a virtuous leader. Now that I am fortunate enough to have found one, I will do my best to serve him."

Xu Huang does not like to make friends. In the first year of Tai He (AD227), Xu Huang passed away, and was given the title Marquis of Zhuang. His son, Xu Gai inherited his titles and positions. Xu Gai died and Xu Ba took over. Cao Rui promoted Xu Huang's descendants to the positions of Marquises.
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