Opinion of Zhang Fei.

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Do you like Zhang Fei?

He's the Butcher God and very underrated!
7
39%
I like him and he's somewhat underrated.
7
39%
He's okay.
2
11%
I dislike him and he's somewhat overrated.
2
11%
He's a no good drunkard and just overrated way to much!
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 18

Opinion of Zhang Fei.

Unread postby Cao Shang » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:35 pm

I want to know how many like Zhang Fei and if they do, especially why. :roll:

I only know him for making troubles, losing his city and being a tyrant on his own soldiers, who pay it back with betraying and beheading him...

He did some good stuff too yes, but not enough I know of to make due for his failures and I don't see why he is liked so much.
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Unread postby WuLordoftheNewAge » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:13 pm

He's not great, but not horrible either... you've gotta be good to become a great general, but horrible to be betrayed by your own men.
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:18 pm

I like Zhang Fei but underatted? Most know what he can do by now, that he wasn't a drunk, that he wasn't the idiot LGZ made him early on.

Without Zhang Fei, there would probably be no Shu. His rearguard at Chang Ban bought vital time, he defeated Yan Yan and won battle after battle in Yi, he smashed Zhang He's army in an ambush. Had it not been for Cao Xiu, his plan would have destroyed Cao Hong as well. He clearly had some skill
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Unread postby Antiochus » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:34 pm

Zhang Fei is responsible for most of Liu Bei's conquest between Chi Bi and Yi Ling. While I dont want to overrated (as a result of his underrated status), he was probably the best Shu had and his death was quite a blow...
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Unread postby Elitemsh » Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:55 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:I like Zhang Fei but underatted? Most know what he can do by now, that he wasn't a drunk, that he wasn't the idiot LGZ made him early on.

Without Zhang Fei, there would probably be no Shu. His rearguard at Chang Ban bought vital time, he defeated Yan Yan and won battle after battle in Yi, he smashed Zhang He's army in an ambush. Had it not been for Cao Xiu, his plan would have destroyed Cao Hong as well. He clearly had some skill


I do not agree that without Zhang Fei there would be no Shu. He defeated Yan Yan, really where did you get that from? As far as i know it, Zhuge Liang, Zhang Fei and Zhao Yun all conquered Yan Yan together. I have never read that Zhang Fei specifically defeated Yan Yan. There is no english translation of Yan Yan's SGZ.

It does say that Zhang Fei won all the battles on his way to Cheng Du. However just like Zhang Fei, Zhuge Liang and Zhao Yun who took the northern and southern routes respectively got into position to strike Cheng Du as well and therefore they must have won their battles too. What makes Zhang Fei's achievement here so much better than theirs?

He defeated Zhang He, who was a very capable general, this was an impressive achievement but it was just a minor skirmish, it was not a major conflict. Zhang Fei may have been more familiar with the terrain too. This should be considered.

Zhang Fei was certainly an important general and he was capable but i would never refer to him as great or even Shu's best. There is no way that Zhang Fei is underrated here, if anything i believe he is overrated.

Most people here forget that Zhang Fei's death was a major failure on his part. He was warned by Liu Bei of his flaws in beating his own soldiers and yet he made no effort to change. This is unacceptable. I would say that Zhang Fei was extremely fortunate to survive as long as he did. The best generals treated their men like their children, meaning that they would reward and punish them fairly and thus gain their true loyalty. Zhang Fei never did this and hence he should never be referred to as a great general.
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Unread postby the glorious sun jian » Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:27 pm

Elitemsh wrote:
Dong Zhou wrote:I like Zhang Fei but underatted? Most know what he can do by now, that he wasn't a drunk, that he wasn't the idiot LGZ made him early on.

Without Zhang Fei, there would probably be no Shu. His rearguard at Chang Ban bought vital time, he defeated Yan Yan and won battle after battle in Yi, he smashed Zhang He's army in an ambush. Had it not been for Cao Xiu, his plan would have destroyed Cao Hong as well. He clearly had some skill


I do not agree that without Zhang Fei there would be no Shu. He defeated Yan Yan, really where did you get that from? As far as i know it, Zhuge Liang, Zhang Fei and Zhao Yun all conquered Yan Yan together. I have never read that Zhang Fei specifically defeated Yan Yan. There is no english translation of Yan Yan's SGZ.

It does say that Zhang Fei won all the battles on his way to Cheng Du. However just like Zhang Fei, Zhuge Liang and Zhao Yun who took the northern and southern routes respectively got into position to strike Cheng Du as well and therefore they must have won their battles too. What makes Zhang Fei's achievement here so much better than theirs?

He defeated Zhang He, who was a very capable general, this was an impressive achievement but it was just a minor skirmish, it was not a major conflict. Zhang Fei may have been more familiar with the terrain too. This should be considered.

Zhang Fei was certainly an important general and he was capable but i would never refer to him as great or even Shu's best. There is no way that Zhang Fei is underrated here, if anything i believe he is overrated.

Most people here forget that Zhang Fei's death was a major failure on his part. He was warned by Liu Bei of his flaws in beating his own soldiers and yet he made no effort to change. This is unacceptable. I would say that Zhang Fei was extremely fortunate to survive as long as he did. The best generals treated their men like their children, meaning that they would reward and punish them fairly and thus gain their true loyalty. Zhang Fei never did this and hence he should never be referred to as a great general.


If Zhang Fei had to choose to kill Yan Yan or release him then he is the overall commander here so he defeated him without the others .

Then what makes Zhao Yun so special here ?

You cant blame him for knowing the terrain .He defeated him with a smart move .So that was a great deed if we know how much talented Zhang He was .

I think that Zhang Fei was the best general Shu had .Better than the over rated Zhao Yun .
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Unread postby Elitemsh » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:22 pm

the glorious sun jian wrote:
If Zhang Fei had to choose to kill Yan Yan or release him then he is the overall commander here so he defeated him without the others .

Then what makes Zhao Yun so special here ?

You cant blame him for knowing the terrain .He defeated him with a smart move .So that was a great deed if we know how much talented Zhang He was .

I think that Zhang Fei was the best general Shu had .Better than the over rated Zhao Yun .


Zhang Fei chose to release Yan Yan and not kill him. This does not mean that he was responsible for victory, not at all. Your are making a wild assumption here. In fact it was Zhuge Liang who had supreme command here. Zhang Fei and Zhao Yun were his subordinates. You have no business saying that Zhang Fei defeated Yan Yan alone unless you can back it up with something from Yan Yan's SGZ bio in which case i would concede.

The reason why i mentioned the terrain was to make others appreciate that this is a very important factor in determining victory.

If you think that Zhang Fei was the best in Shu then fine you are entitled to that opinion. However you should try to acknowledge you have not supported any of your comments with facts.
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:25 pm

Addressed most of the points elsewhere but why diminish Zhang Fei's achievement. Liu Zhang's troops knew the terrain and they lost, yes Fei had an advantage here but he still beat a general that was highly respected, if not top tier.

Yes his death and the loss of Xu showed he had problems, is he a true great? Probably not but he was one of the Shu's best generals along with Wang Ping, Liu Bei (if he counts), Zhang Yi, Zhao Yun (though amazed his bio mentions no battles or even that he fought), Huang Zhong, maybe Zhuge Liang.

SunJian, why do you call Zhao Yun overatted? I find views are mixed towards him between those who consider him a very good general and those who view him as something else
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Unread postby the glorious sun jian » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:27 pm

Elitemsh wrote:
the glorious sun jian wrote:
If Zhang Fei had to choose to kill Yan Yan or release him then he is the overall commander here so he defeated him without the others .

Then what makes Zhao Yun so special here ?

You cant blame him for knowing the terrain .He defeated him with a smart move .So that was a great deed if we know how much talented Zhang He was .

I think that Zhang Fei was the best general Shu had .Better than the over rated Zhao Yun .


Zhang Fei chose to release Yan Yan and not kill him. This does not mean that he was responsible for victory, not at all. Your are making a wild assumption here. In fact it was Zhuge Liang who had supreme command here. Zhang Fei and Zhao Yun were his subordinates. You have no business saying that Zhang Fei defeated Yan Yan alone unless you can back it up with something from Yan Yan's SGZ bio in which case i would concede.

The reason why i mentioned the terrain was to make others appreciate that this is a very important factor in determining victory.

If you think that Zhang Fei was the best in Shu then fine you are entitled to that opinion. However you should try to acknowledge you have not supported any of your comments with facts.

If Zhuge Liang was the overall commander when Zhang Fei caught Yan Yan then how did he (Zhang Fei ) choose what to do with Yan Yan ?

What facts do I need when it is Zhao Yun VS Zhang Fei ??

Zhao Yun SGZ is a very short one and does not show him to be even a great leader .While Zhang Fei has a glorious one .

So how can you support Zhao Yun with facts ?
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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:28 pm

your not backing yours with much facts sunjian, just stating an opinion that one is great and one isn't
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