elitemsh wrote:Historically, Zhang He played a significant part in the defeat of Gongsun Zan and achieved much in this war. Yuan Shao was quite simply a very poor judge of talent. Just like Ju Shou and Tian Feng who were very competent, Zhang He was ignored by the inept Yuan Shao. Zhang He was historically a very capable general and learned in war tactics. Liu Bei, who was indeed a good judge of talent, respected/feared Zhang He's abilities. That says it all.
Tan_Binrui wrote:Where are you getting your information? Yuan Shao didn't ignore him, he continuously promoted him for his deeds. He consistently promoted and used very talented men. His only failings come after Gongsun Zan's death, just before the battle of Guan Du. However, this cannot mark Yuan Shao as completely inept. He has a lifetime of leadership and courage, wise judgments, and clever strategies. A year or two of senility can't possibly mark him as inept.
I only wished to speak in defense of you blatant downplaying of Yuan Shao. Outside of that, I don't disagree. Zhang He was very skilled.
As for the Topic Creator, I'd have to disagree. If he had underestimated him, he wouldn't have promoted him beyond his post in Han Fu's army. He wouldn't have placed Zhang He in the trusting position of defending against a rival lord. He wouldn't have used him as the head of the charge into Cao Cao's camp. Although he didn't listen to Zhang He, it wasn't a case of underestimating him.
elitemsh wrote:I am getting all my info from the SGZ and ZZTJ. Yuan Shao ignored Zhang He when the latter suggested to him to reinforce Chunyu Qiong. Yuan Shao did not listen to this good advice. It is just like when he ignored Ju Shou and Tian Feng's excellent advice on many occassions. I have every right to say that Yuan Shao was inept because he had plenty of good advisors but he couldn't distinguish good advice and bad advice. He was able to gather a lot talent like the three above due to his lineage but he couldn't use them effectively. Therefore he was inept. You tell me where are his wise judgments and clever strategies? Where are you getting your information?
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