Could Sun Jian get Wu as Sun Ce did ..

[the glorious sun jian]

Well you all know that the son did it after the father died ....still did Jian had what it takes to get the land of Wu ......

In millitary Jian as I think was better than Ce as a leader and commande in the fields but Ce had a point that Jian did not or at least was not as good as Ce and tha point was how to use people in the fight ......

Well Jian is a veteran who fought in many battles and gaind many victories while Ce fought in less battles but did an outstanding thing (taking Wu ) .......

So if Sun Jian tried to get Wu will he be able ?

[xiaoxiannu]

Well, I agreed with you for this one.
As you said Jian is better leader than Ce, but Ce is know how to used and attract people to his side better than Jian. So I think Sun Jian will able to get Wu as well but maybe a little longer than Sun Ce. Sun Ce can made it fast because he had help from many talents at that time such as Zhou Yu, Taishi Chi, Zhou Tai, Lu Su, etc.

[Matteo Ricci]

Of course, the question is whether Sun Jian could have had the ambition to take Wu or even had that intention to march to the east to build his own powerbase. If Sun Jian's life was not cut short, he probably would have taken over Jingzhou instead. Of course, this assumes that Sun Jian could really destroy Liu Biao, who historically was not a pushover.

Sun Ce however, was forced by necessity to move east, considering that his powerbase was weaker than Sun Jian.

[Sun Fin]

Yeh i agree with both of the above. If Sun Jian was interested in Wu (I'd need convincing towards this end) and found himself in a simular position to Sun Ce then I reckon he could of done it but no were near as quickly but also he'd have to spend longer dealling with strife and rebellion. however as he proved in early life he was fully capable of dealing with rebels.

[Dong Zhou]

If he had the ambition, which I'm not sure he did and got the opportunity which he wouldn't then quite possible. Might have a harder time if given the small amount Ce did but Jian was also an exceptional military leader able to gather men fast so would do it.

Question if he could hold it or survive a political fight with Cao Cao

[the glorious sun jian]

If he had the ambition, which I'm not sure he did and got the opportunity which he wouldn't then quite possible. Might have a harder time if given the small amount Ce did but Jian was also an exceptional military leader able to gather men fast so would do it.

Question if he could hold it or survive a political fight with Cao Cao

I really think he could survive Dong zhou , although Sun Ce himselfe was somewhat good at political things (ofcourse did not reach Cao Cao level) he had much help from his advisors (Zhao-Hong-Su and others ) so if Jian got these people to serve him then he will survive I think ......

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Yeh i agree with both of the above. If Sun Jian was interested in Wu (I'd need convincing towards this end) and found himself in a simular position to Sun Ce then I reckon he could of done it but no were near as quickly but also he'd have to spend longer dealling with strife and rebellion. however as he proved in early life he was fully capable of dealing with rebels.

Not just rebels he was strong enough to defeat the strongest force of his time ............

He even may done it even faster because he wont confort the problems that Sun Ce did with Yuan Shu .

[Dong Zhou]

I really think he could survive Dong zhou , although Sun Ce himselfe was somewhat good at political things (ofcourse did not reach Cao Cao level) he had much help from his advisors (Zhao-Hong-Su and others ) so if Jian got these people to serve him then he will survive I think ......

Dong was a military matter and Sun Ce did defeat Cao Cao politically so Ce was quite possibly on Cao Cao's level

[the glorious sun jian]

I really think he could survive Dong zhou , although Sun Ce himselfe was somewhat good at political things (ofcourse did not reach Cao Cao level) he had much help from his advisors (Zhao-Hong-Su and others ) so if Jian got these people to serve him then he will survive I think ......

Dong was a military matter and Sun Ce did defeat Cao Cao politically so Ce was quite possibly on Cao Cao's level

I meant in you In that (Dong Zhou )

I really not sure about Jian political abillites , however he could have been as good as his son but did not have the chance to prove so ...

[Little_Phoenix]

i think he's able to do it but not fast as his son because his son has more able leaders and advisers to support him while Jian only have less (like Cheng Pu, Huang Gai, Zhu Ran, Sun Jing, Han Dang and Lu Fan)

[Sun Fin]

Yeh i agree with both of the above. If Sun Jian was interested in Wu (I'd need convincing towards this end) and found himself in a simular position to Sun Ce then I reckon he could of done it but no were near as quickly but also he'd have to spend longer dealling with strife and rebellion. however as he proved in early life he was fully capable of dealing with rebels.

Not just rebels he was strong enough to defeat the strongest force of his time ............

He even may done it even faster because he wont confort the problems that Sun Ce did with Yuan Shu .

Sorry i didn't explain my point properlly . What i meant to say was that fighting rebels requires a different technique to an orginised army. Sun Jian proved early on he could deal with these (Xu Chang, Yellow Turbans). But as you said he was capable of dealing with the greatest powers in the land.
as for your second point about Yuan Shu I feel he would of found it harder to deal with him because a) I don't think Yuan Shu would send his best officer on a mission of such little importance and if he tried to break away he'd of been branded as a rebel as Yuan Shu had been his master for years.