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Pang Tong, genius of the time, or just overrated a lot?

Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:30 am
by Cao Shang
I wonder what people think about Pang Tong and why! He died pretty young for sure...

Would Shu have been in trouble without him or maybe even be better off and would it have been a big difference for Shu if he had lived longer?

Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:16 am
by Ma_Lin
I think he died really young, and so it's hard to say. I think he almost certainly would have been an asset to Shu. Whether he would have been one of Shu's greatest is a question that is really impossible to answer. I also think that people who don't like the way ZGL handled things militarily will sometimes hype him up a lot to provide an alternative.

Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:30 am
by ZhouTai50
If we're speaking historically here, I feel he is largely overrated. Never did much of anything in any regard, and was a failure at domestics. I find his battle strategies to be a tad bit too risky and short sighted as well. His most famous event, the chaining of the ships at Red Cliffs, is fictional. He never pretended to defect to Cao Cao or come up with the idea to burn Cao Cao's fleet.

Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:38 am
by xiaoxiannu
I put on last...Not sure he is died too young. :D
Imagine if he still survive after Liu Bei is taking Yi. This must be balance power between Jing and Yi, ZGL put in Jing and Pang Tong in Yi.
Maybe Pang Tong has a bit too risky strategy and short sighted as ZhouTai50 says, but he is still a brilliant strategist at that time. :D

Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:23 am
by Cao Shang
ZhouTai50 wrote:If we're speaking historically here, I feel he is largely overrated. Never did much of anything in any regard, and was a failure at domestics. I find his battle strategies to be a tad bit too risky and short sighted as well. His most famous event, the chaining of the ships at Red Cliffs, is fictional. He never pretended to defect to Cao Cao or come up with the idea to burn Cao Cao's fleet.


That is quite right. ;)
The chaining may seem like is his best "idea", even though if it really had happened...
I find it very risky and dangerous to attempt considering the situation.
He is just to risky in what he does, even fictional! ;)

I am sure that Cao Cao would have been very suspicious and the whole Fire Attack could have failed very easily.

I don't really know though why Cao Cao didn't reacted accordingly when it was noticed that the wind was blowing from the so dangerous direction...

The chaining wasn't a bad idea in itself, if Cao Cao had attacked with the wind in his favor, victory would have been his for sure.

Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:31 pm
by Matteo Ricci
There used to be an academic paper published in Hong Kong probably in the 1980s, which supposedly stated that the death of Pang Tong was actually not unwelcomed by Zhuge Liang. Probably because both of them were competing for the position of the advisor in Shu? I have not read the paper yet, so I am not sure how accurate it is. Still, has anybody heard that thesis before?

Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:40 pm
by Skir
his advice to Xu Shu is pretty solid...

Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:49 am
by Shi Tong
I like Pang Tong. As far as I'm concerned, he was quite like the Guo Jia of Shu, in that he died before he could show his full potential, and though we cant tell what he could or would have done, I assume that he would have been pretty useful!

Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:54 am
by Sun Fin
Yeah i agree with Shi Tong about he could of been a genius afterall there has to be something there for a reputation to grow.... But we'll never know how capable he is because he did die to early. as for ZL welcoming his death its not very like ROTK Zl but might be his real safe unless he considered him unskilled and thought it would be better for Shu if he was killed.........

Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:26 am
by Hannibal ad portas
I have voted for he died to soon. We really didn't witness his true potential, maybe he was a genius maybe he wasn't we will never know. But i also agree that he is kinda overrated, just like Guo Jia!