Guan Yu's children

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Guan Yu's children

Unread postby Zhuge-Guan Yi » Fri Jun 21, 2002 3:21 pm

Lord Guan had two sons, Guan Ping(adopted) and Guan Xing.(natural) Some say that Lord Guan had another son (Guan Suo) or a daughter (Guan Yen/Guan Feng). What's your opinion?
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Unread postby Zhang Liao17 » Fri Jun 21, 2002 3:27 pm

His SGZ biography speaks of Guan Xing and Guan Ping. I don't know if the others are made up or not.
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Unread postby Azian Zenzation » Fri Jun 21, 2002 10:43 pm

Well Guan Suo is in DW3, so I think he was real.
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Unread postby Zhang Liao17 » Fri Jun 21, 2002 10:53 pm

I wouldn't use DW3 as a historical reference. He wasn't in Guan Yu's SGZ bio so I doubt he was real.
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Unread postby Azian Zenzation » Sat Jun 22, 2002 1:13 am

Zhang Liao17 wrote:I wouldn't use DW3 as a historical reference. He wasn't in Guan Yu's SGZ bio so I doubt he was real.


He's been in all of the "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" games,
Always, I always hear people referring to SGZ and that other SSY,. whatever it is.
What are those anyway?
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Unread postby Zhuge-Guan Yi » Sat Jun 22, 2002 3:02 am

Azian Zenzation wrote:He's been in all of the "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" games,
Always, I always hear people referring to SGZ and that other SSY,. whatever it is.
What are those anyway?


SGYY is is the the novel, 'Romance of the Three Kingdoms' by Luo Guanzhong of Ming Dynasty. SGZ is based on the historical facts of Three Kingdoms by Chen Shou of Jin Dynasty. People say that Luo Guanzhong's exaggarated, and Chen Shou's accurate. I don't think that's true. From what I know, Chen Shou hated the Shus especially, Zhuge Liang for killing his father who was serving Shu that time. He might have change the true facts to false ones just to get revenge.
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Unread postby Azian Zenzation » Sat Jun 22, 2002 3:07 am

I see, thanks 8-)
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Unread postby Zhang Liao17 » Sat Jun 22, 2002 3:18 am

Zhuge-Guan Yi wrote:
Azian Zenzation wrote:He's been in all of the "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" games,
Always, I always hear people referring to SGZ and that other SSY,. whatever it is.
What are those anyway?


SGYY is is the the novel, 'Romance of the Three Kingdoms' by Luo Guanzhong of Ming Dynasty. SGZ is based on the historical facts of Three Kingdoms by Chen Shou of Jin Dynasty. People say that Luo Guanzhong's exaggarated, and Chen Shou's accurate. I don't think that's true. From what I know, Chen Shou hated the Shus especially, Zhuge Liang for killing his father who was serving Shu that time. He might have change the true facts to false ones just to get revenge.


If you didn't know, Chen Shou was thrown into jail by the Jin government because he didn't get the history right on Jin. If he hated anyone it was probaly the Jin government since he was originally a Shu officer. You also have to factor in that Chen Shou actually lived during the time and LGZ didn't. Also remember the calling of the winds and other such events in SGYY. Those aren't true and I don't see why anyone would believe such events could happen. If you've ever read SGZ you see very little bias but try reading SGYY from a Wei or Wu fan's point of view and you see the obvious bias of LGZ. SGZ is the definitive source of historical information whether its a more boring read than SGYY or not.
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Unread postby Han Xin » Sat Jun 22, 2002 3:25 am

There are no-point calling one person biased unlest you have some evident. Here are a few examples that Chen Shou had nothing against Shu or Zhuge Liang:

1. Zhuge Liang land reform policy were credit by Chen Shou to Zhuge Liang as one of his great ideas. But if you look at Cao Cao's SGZ bio, such policy were already implemented by Cao Cao himself as early as 194AD.

2. People like Li Yan, Wei Yan, and etc were label by Chen Shou as Shu traitors only because they don't like Zhuge Liang. They never did anything that betrayed Shu.

3. All the bad stuff about Shu generals (i.e. Guan Yu) were conviently hidden away to paint Shu in a good light.


And lastly, Chen Shou was throw in jail by the Jin authority for what he wrote.
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Unread postby Mega Zarak » Sat Jun 22, 2002 3:32 am

Zhuge-Guan Yi wrote:
SGYY is is the the novel, 'Romance of the Three Kingdoms' by Luo Guanzhong of Ming Dynasty. SGZ is based on the historical facts of Three Kingdoms by Chen Shou of Jin Dynasty. People say that Luo Guanzhong's exaggarated, and Chen Shou's accurate. I don't think that's true. From what I know, Chen Shou hated the Shus especially, Zhuge Liang for killing his father who was serving Shu that time. He might have change the true facts to false ones just to get revenge.


That's a convenient way to twist facts around. There is no evident whatsoever (whether in Hua Yang Guo Zhi, Hou Han Shu, etc.) to suggest that Chen Shou hated Shu. SGZ is accepted as one of the 25 official historical texts describing Chinese history and those Chinese historians' intellectual would be questionable if they chose a biased source. Anyway, more can be said in the thread "SGYY and SGZ". Juz a final point, rumours or heresays could be very damaging to the integrity of a person or his work. It can even be more damaging than having a negative point recorded against you in a historical record.
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