Sun Ce: Wu, if he lived?

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Sun Ce: Wu, if he lived?

Unread postby NOD » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:55 am

i know this has been talked about before but i cant find it anywere so i was hopeing someone could share opinion with me on how the lands of wu would have turned up if he wasnt killed? would he have been succesful in his drive to secure the emporer???
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Unread postby Sun Fin » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:16 am

I reckon if Sun Ce had survived he'd of united it however since he was a leading from the front kind of leader he might of been killed in combat. However i doubt this and i think that he'd have the skills to unite China if not the skills to adminitrate it.
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Unread postby Long » Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:17 pm

It would depend on timing. If Sun Ce marched on the onset of Cao Cao and Yuan Shao's conflict, then yes he would have succeeded. Cao Cao would have been defeated, and Yuan Shao had neither the talent, nor generals to defeat Sun Ce.

If after Cao Cao defeated Yuan Shao, then no he would not have succeeded. The Yuan brothers were busy squabbling over inheritance so Cao Cao could then turn his full attention to Sun Ce, and the two would have fought long and bitter campaigns, but Cao Cao's army was just too strong and he had too many talented men by that point.
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Unread postby Sun Fin » Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:57 pm

Yeah what Long says make sense but if he had marched against Liu Biao if Cao Cao won or Sun Ce didn't march at all and history was the same i.e. Liu Bei came to Wu instead i imahine that he'd of taken Jing easily and would of might of allied with Shu. If that happened then Shu and Wu certainily would of been able to pull it off.
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Unread postby Long » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:06 pm

If Sun Ce turned on Liu Biao and took Jing, then he wouldn't need Liu Bei at all. He would continue his advance west and taken Yizhou, and Zhou Yu's two kingdom plan would be a reality. Liu Bei was the only thing that stood in the way and if he wasn't needed, then...
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Unread postby Sun Fin » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:14 pm

Yeh but i don't think that Sun Ce could of beaten Cao Cao by himself. What I'd meant by that comment had been that he;d of been able to kick Liu Bei out once he'd taken Shu and hopefuilly still be allied but who revlly knows....
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Unread postby Sun Fin » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:45 pm

He might of been able to find a capable ally in Liu Zhang or more likely Ma Teng/Ma Chao and i really don't think Cao Cao could of stood up to that combination.
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Unread postby Lonely_dragon » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:01 am

I'd say that it will be hard for him to march on the central plains... he is a mortal enemy with Liu Biao meaning that if he did marched towards the central plain Liu Biao will fall on his rear... Indeed at the time he was offered an alliance with Yuan Shao to fall upon Cao Cao together from the front and rear... But Sun Ce also were threatened in the rear by Liu Biao... So maybe that if Sun Ce marched towards central plains Cao Cao being the willy man he is will write to Liu Biao to cut off Sun Ce's rear...
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Unread postby Little_Phoenix » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:04 am

Lonely_dragon wrote:I'd say that it will be hard for him to march on the central plains... he is a mortal enemy with Liu Biao meaning that if he did marched towards the central plain Liu Biao will fall on his rear... Indeed at the time he was offered an alliance with Yuan Shao to fall upon Cao Cao together from the front and rear... But Sun Ce also were threatened in the rear by Liu Biao... So maybe that if Sun Ce marched towards central plains Cao Cao being the willy man he is will write to Liu Biao to cut off Sun Ce's rear...


well attack Liu Biao first :D ..and then allied with Liu Zhang and attack central plain (Cao Cao)
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Unread postby xiaoxiannu » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:01 am

Hmm..I think Liu Biao didn't have intention to attack Sun Ce (invaded Wu) because he is not an ambitious man. He is only want to keep his territory safe and peace. Maybe only his own officer such as Cai Mao and Huang Zhu who have an ambitious to take over Wu. If only Sun Ce want to forget his revenge with Liu Biao and then ally with them, maybe he can march towards central plains to attack Cao Cao together... 8-)
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