Who Was Best: Zhuge Liang, Lu Xun, or Sima Yi?

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who is better lu xun or zhuge liang

lu xun
9
16%
zhuge liang
29
53%
sima yi
17
31%
 
Total votes : 55

Re: Who Was Best: Zhuge Liang, Lu Xun, or Sima Yi?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:53 am

and correct me if i'm wrong, didn't sima yi said that zhuge liang is a true genius after observing shu's camp in wu zhang?


My impression is Sima Yi was referring to his organizational abilities but also may have been trying to deflect criticism of Sima Yi's poor performances.
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Re: Who Was Best: Zhuge Liang, Lu Xun, or Sima Yi?

Unread postby Elitemsh » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:40 am

In my opinion in overall terms it has to come down to Lu Xun or Zhuge Liang. I think Sima Yi was more limited/refined in his skill set. In terms of the military i'm not so sure i'd pick Lu Xun. He did well against Liu Bei but he had the advantage in that battle. His strategy in essence seemed very simple but perhaps it was his execution that was impressive. For example the fire tactic was an obvious one but he may have timed it well and made sure to inflict maximum casualties. I wouldn't give Lu Xun credit for the victory against Cao Xiu because from what i remember reading most of the work was done by another/others.

As for Zhuge Liang, well we know that he faced a number of disdvantages from attacking his position. Wu had a similar problem. It seems some of these areas that were easier to defend were also harder to attack from. It is thus harder to judge Zhuge Liang than Lu Xun and Sima Yi. One thing is though that all three were similar in so far as they were commanders. I mean that they did not really fight themselves but more specifically commanded others. Zhuge Liang ordered Ma Su to defend against Zhang He. He didn't do it himself. Was this because Zhuge Liang's title meant he couldn't give himself this responsibility? Or was he not up to it? I say this because when Liu Bei captured Cheng Du, he was then the leader of a new kingdom (if your like) now with a base. My point being Liu Bei's importance to his followers was huge. Despite this fact, Liu Bei personally led the battle against Xiahou Yuan. He didn't simply order others to do it. Liu Bei fought against Zhang He himself. Zhuge Liang did not do the same. I am wary of this point. If Zhuge Liang was that good then why he didn't he defend against Zhang He himself? That is why i might lean more towards Lu Xun but i'm still not certain.
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Re: Who Was Best: Zhuge Liang, Lu Xun, or Sima Yi?

Unread postby Chan Zilong » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:23 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:
and correct me if i'm wrong, didn't sima yi said that zhuge liang is a true genius after observing shu's camp in wu zhang?


My impression is Sima Yi was referring to his organizational abilities but also may have been trying to deflect criticism of Sima Yi's poor performances.


either one of your explanation is a legit and possible reason

i truly found scholars in this forum :D
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Re: Who Was Best: Zhuge Liang, Lu Xun, or Sima Yi?

Unread postby KongMingisAwesome » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:19 am

Most definitely Zhuge Liang!!! He is my fave!!! He was so loyal and died from over working due to the devotion and determination to finish Liu Bei's never completed wish! He was the smartest of the three kingdoms period. Zhou Yu wouldn't have won Chibi without him!
Next Zhou Yu, then probably Pang Tong or Lu Xun! Definitely not that brat Sima Yi!!! He tried to upsurge the throne after Zhuge Liang died and he succeeded. Hard to think 70 something years of war and many blood shed and people's death started just because the emperor died and then some idiots started a rebellion! Well, don't judge me, I have been watching 三國演義 and 孫子兵法 since I was like three and I'm twelve now! How I know Chinese? I was born in Hong Kong but went back to the states. So I am Chinese American! :D 8-)

Kong Ming is the best! Sima Yi sucks balls man!
Oops, sorry. I am just really mad at Sima Yi! In my point of view, Zhuge Liang died earlier cause of him!
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DZ: Combined two posts into 1
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Re: Who Was Best: Zhuge Liang, Lu Xun, or Sima Yi?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:32 am

Don't double post please, just edit into your last post. :) In regards your age, we welcome all sort of ages here but we will demand certain standards of behaviour whatever someone's age. I imagine you can do better then sucks balls when you seem to know it was wrong

Anyway welcome to the forum KongMingisAwesome

I'm guessing that the TV shows were very much novel based so trying to keep my arguments to novel rather then history.

Hard to think 70 something years of war and many blood shed and people's death started just because the emperor died and then some idiots started a rebellion!


This confuses me because it comes after the Sima Yi point but part of me thinks your referring to the collapse of the Han? Could you clarify?

In my point of view, Zhuge Liang died earlier cause of him!


Personally I think his novel death is due to overwork, the theme of can't defy Heaven's fate so things like Wei Yan disturbing the ritual happens and possibly Heavens punishing Zhuge Liang for the war atrocity against the Rattan troops.
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Re: Who Was Best: Zhuge Liang, Lu Xun, or Sima Yi?

Unread postby Sun Fin » Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:33 pm

Dong Zhou wrote:
Hard to think 70 something years of war and many blood shed and people's death started just because the emperor died and then some idiots started a rebellion!


This confuses me because it comes after the Sima Yi point but part of me thinks your referring to the collapse of the Han? Could you clarify?


On my first reading I thought it was a reference to Jin taking over from Wei? Not 100% sure on that though.
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Re: Who Was Best: Zhuge Liang, Lu Xun, or Sima Yi?

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:40 pm

Sun Fin wrote:
Dong Zhou wrote:
Hard to think 70 something years of war and many blood shed and people's death started just because the emperor died and then some idiots started a rebellion!


This confuses me because it comes after the Sima Yi point but part of me thinks your referring to the collapse of the Han? Could you clarify?


On my first reading I thought it was a reference to Jin taking over from Wei? Not 100% sure on that though.


You may be right Sun Fin.

I did think that with Cao Rui presumably being the Emperor who dies but the entire land was already in civil war so didn't think it quite worked.
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Re: Who Was Best: Zhuge Liang, Lu Xun, or Sima Yi?

Unread postby wwhite93 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:50 pm

well this is quite hard to pick as each of them has their own strengths and weaknesses, Lu Xun in my opinion is the better commander of the three, while from what I read Zhuge Liang is a brilliant administrator, probably one of the best in the era, while Sima Yi is certainly the best politician, considering his brilliant coup against Cao Shuang. If I have to pick I think I have to go with Sima Yi, IMO he has slightly better overall ability compared to Lu Xun and Zhuge Liang.
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Re: Who Was Best: Zhuge Liang, Lu Xun, or Sima Yi?

Unread postby Spurman » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Zhuge Liang by a mile. Though he's unlucky to die young. But then 57 at that time is long life.

Most historians have most positive about him and he has the high high regards by so many Chinese generations after generation.

Though his abilities seems to be over dramatized in novel and movies which makes him so much more "smarter" than the rest. Perhaps serving Liu bei the good guy makes him most popular
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