Shi Tong wrote:So..
Was Pang Tong really so smart? I dont really know enough about him from his SGZ records, but in SGYY he's touted as the cleverest man ever.
If he wasn't quite as smart as everyone thought he was, why did Shu poach him from Wu, and why didn't Wu recognize his abilities? Was it actually because he was as ugly as a dead fish, and they didn't like his look, or was it because they just .. simply.. didn't spot him!?
Dong Zhou wrote:Isn't it remarked that in his early civil career, he outdid his talents, I suppose due to care and hard work so I wouldn't say he was bad at it despite his poor governorship of Leiying. I think the man was very smart in terms of the quickest military route to doing something and judging others but as you say, it is difficult to say how good he was. Was he reckless with his best plan? Could be that he needed a strong hand to guide him but doubt even his novel character could overturn the historical Wei.
Dong Zhou wrote:He was an offical in Nazhou and promoted to Gong Cao, I have no idea what that is though.
I'm not saying his death was reckless, it was unlucky. As for Wei, Cao Zhen and Cao Rui were men who would not be easy to dislodge so far as to Chang A, Shu would still have supply problems and be outnumbered so as good as Pang Tong is, I think the job was too big.
Dong Zhou wrote:1) How easy would it to sneak up to Cheng Du with an army? If they are spotted, they are stranded in Shu away from their base and Liu Bei's reputation could lie in tatters. Or Liu Zhang able to shut the gates of Cheng Du, Liu Bei could find himself surrounded by Liu Zhang's generals who would give to aid their master.
Dong Zhou wrote:2) A good plan, Shu got the pass to build upon, gets rid of two powerful generals and can begin a two pronged attack with a small advantage of surprise. If not for Liu Xun and Liu Bei's relaitve caution, might have even been done a lot earleir
Dong Zhou wrote:3) A workable plan, safe with the only risk being time and other powers, should do the job but it would take a long long time. I suspect he offered it as three sounds better then two
Dong Zhou wrote:I'm also not a plan of the "capture the visiting Liu Zhang" plan, it would have turned the people against Liu Bei and again destroyed his reputation, Liu Bei would end up fighting anyway and without the support of the common people that he had so carefully cultivated.
ZZTJ wrote:Liu Zhang ordered preparations throughout his territory to welcome Liu Bei,
and Liu Bei entered the borders as if he was returning to his own home.28
As he passed by, he received tremendous presents, amounting to hundreds
of millions of cash.
ZZTJ wrote:Liu Zhang then returned to Chengdu and Liu Bei went north to
Jiameng.31 Before he departed for the campaign against Zhang Lu, however,
he acted with generosity and grace to win the hearts of the people.
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