Who was with Guan Yu in Jing Zhou?

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

Unread postby Shadowlink » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:56 pm

Oh yeah the grain transporter guy that hold a high position in Shu.
User avatar
Shadowlink
Langzhong
 
Posts: 4882
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 5:57 pm

Unread postby Six_and_Up » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:42 am

No one of great talent was with Guan Yu when he was in Jingzhou after Liu Bei needed reinforcements to take Yizhou. Originally he had ZGL, Zhang Fei and Zhao Yun with him.
Currently playing: Dragon Quest VIII
User avatar
Six_and_Up
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:35 am
Location: Sydney Australia

Unread postby Shield » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:59 am

It's good that you brought this up Shi Tong. For such an important territory as Jing, Liu Bei sure left Guan Yu very little to work with. I can't remember exactly but I think attacking North must has been an order of Liu Bei also. It is rather confusing to ponder what Liu Bei was thinking there. Perhaps he was very confident in Guan Yu abilities.
Shield
Assistant
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:34 pm

Unread postby Six_and_Up » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:38 am

I can't remember exactly but I think attacking North must has been an order of Liu Bei also.


Interesting you bring that fact up, because its fairly uncertain who came up with the idea to attack the Xiang-Fan front.

SGZ does not from memory have recorded something to the effect of 'liu bei in X year ordered general guan to attack Fan'. All it says is something like 'general guan in X year attacked Fan'. In hindsight it was a pretty bad move if Liu Bei ordered Guan Yu to attack Fan when no one else important was at Jingzhou defending it. But then again i'm more inclined to think it was Guan Yu's plan, he probably attacked because he was jealous of all the other generals getting credit for their merits in Yizhou and Hanzhong that he wanted some glory himself.
Currently playing: Dragon Quest VIII
User avatar
Six_and_Up
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:35 am
Location: Sydney Australia

Unread postby Shi Tong » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:26 am

It's painting an interesting picture because without sound advise, Guan Yu may have felt jelous of all the action up North and got impatient to attack Fan.

On the other hand, he may have been given the order, and without any sound backup (as has been proven in this thread so far), Jing is pretty much left undefended.

Guan Yu may have been a fool for either:

a)being jealous of the action up North or

b)following Liu Bei's instructions to attack Fan,

but IMO, if you're in command of such an important area, which is on two fronts with your potential enemies, I think it was folly of anyone to leave Guan Yu, effectively on his own in Jing Zhou.
User avatar
Shi Tong
Stupid Egg of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 4034
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:12 pm
Location: London, England

Unread postby Six_and_Up » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:05 am

Well when Guan Yu attacked Xiang-Fan Jingzhou was well-defended from any incursions by Wu because Nanjun was very well-reinforced. Lu Meng did not dare make a move to take it until Lu Xun wrote the letter where he pretended to suck up to Guan Yu and Yu ordered troops defending the Wu border to the northern front to fight with Wei.
Currently playing: Dragon Quest VIII
User avatar
Six_and_Up
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:35 am
Location: Sydney Australia

Unread postby Shi Tong » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:16 am

With a well versed adviser Guan Yu may have spotted the ruse though, right?
User avatar
Shi Tong
Stupid Egg of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 4034
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:12 pm
Location: London, England

Unread postby Zeche » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:41 pm

With a well versed adviser Guan Yu may have spotted the ruse though, right?


Possibly. Guan Yu might not have listened just as Cao Cao ignored Cheng Yu at Chi Bi.
User avatar
Zeche
Academic
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:39 pm

Unread postby Shi Tong » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:36 pm

He might have, but at least Cao Cao had a Cheng Yu who he should have listened to- Guan Yu had nobody to listen to at all, and though I'm not suggesting this is the only reason for failure, it may have had a big impact.
User avatar
Shi Tong
Stupid Egg of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 4034
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:12 pm
Location: London, England

Unread postby Shadowlink » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:34 pm

b)following Liu Bei's instructions to attack Fan
Zhuge Liang was the fool in the novel to tell him to attack Wei... He said if he did that then Wu would back off :roll:
User avatar
Shadowlink
Langzhong
 
Posts: 4882
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 5:57 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved