Xu Shu...What was his real intent?

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Unread postby Dong Zhou » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:27 pm

No, the ZZTJ backs Zhuge Liang's SGZ, our Xu Shu one is from 3kingdoms rather then here. My fault for not being clear
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Unread postby Shi Tong » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:23 am

You were clear- I'm just stupid :lol:

My point still stands though right? Sounds like Zhuge Liang's bio is more detailed, and if the ZZTJ back ZGL's version of events, then maybe Xu Shu was intending to help Liu Bei and was dragged away by his mother being captured.

I guess it's something hard to know though since we cant really know what's in Xu Shu's heart.
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Unread postby Rakoru Hiryuu » Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:56 am

I start to read the novel and it says that Xu Shu "Shan Fu" sang in the streets to get the attention of Liu Bei because he tried to get hired by Liu Bei and it was always closed. I think that it proves that he wanted to be with Liu Bei instead of Cao Cao.
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Unread postby Foif » Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:28 pm

Rakoru Hiryuu wrote:I start to read the novel and it says that Xu Shu "Shan Fu" sang in the streets to get the attention of Liu Bei because he tried to get hired by Liu Bei and it was always closed. I think that it proves that he wanted to be with Liu Bei instead of Cao Cao.


Novel-wise. Historically, i dont remember really any account of this. And if he trule did want to be with Liu Bei, why didnt abandon Cao Cao when he "joined" him? Was it because of his honour? Because he would have had the same amount as Liu Bei, seeing as he also ditched Cao Cao. And he was a wanted criminal, who knows what Cao Cao would have done if he went straight up to him.
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Unread postby Lonely_dragon » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:26 am

Foif Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:28 am Post subject:

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Novel-wise. Historically, i dont remember really any account of this. And if he trule did want to be with Liu Bei, why didnt abandon Cao Cao when he "joined" him? Was it because of his honour? Because he would have had the same amount as Liu Bei, seeing as he also ditched Cao Cao. And he was a wanted criminal, who knows what Cao Cao would have done if he went straight up to him.


He truly wanted to serve Liu Bei... there is this episodes in the novel where he was sent to Fan Cheng by Cao Cao as an envoy to request Liu Bei's surrender... This was just before Chang Ban episode...

He stated that he wanted to do so only that he feared the people will ridicule him... why? He had switched allegiances to Cao Cao and if he returns to Liu Bei it would mean he had switched allegiances again... And people will talk of him as he who had no loyalty... That's why Xu Shu chose to stay with Cao Cao...

Besides he also saw that Zhuge Liang had already been employed and he felt that Zhuge is a more capable advisor than he is...
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Unread postby xiaoxiannu » Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:08 am

Oh..nice thread :D
I see Xu Shu is a man with high Loyalty, thats right. Altough he surrender to Cao Cao because some of Cheng Yu trick, he loyalty to Liu Bei never changed. Its remind me to another officer..Huang Quan, and can u imagine if Zhuge Liang, Pang Tong and Xu Shu work all together under Liu Bei...Hmm I think maybe the story can changes :P
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Unread postby Lonely_dragon » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:46 am

xiaoxiannu Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:08 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh..nice thread
I see Xu Shu is a man with high Loyalty, thats right. Altough he surrender to Cao Cao because some of Cheng Yu trick, he loyalty to Liu Bei never changed. Its remind me to another officer..Huang Quan, and can u imagine if Zhuge Liang, Pang Tong and Xu Shu work all together under Liu Bei...Hmm I think maybe the story can changes


Not good... IMO three superior strategists no matter how good friends they are rivalry will takes place... Just remember Pang Tong neglected Zhuge's advice at Luo Feng Po thinking that Zhuge is jealous... now altough Xu Shu is understanding and kind he is no inferior than these two... They will had different ways and opinion in every matter and unless Liu Bei is a capable desicion maker these three won't work well...
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Unread postby Shi Tong » Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:12 am

I think novel wise that his loyalty to Liu Bei is unquestionable, but historically it's really hard to tell, as I've stated before.

In ZL's bio, it seems as if he's suggesting that Xu Shu wanted to stay with Liu Bei but was dragged away because of his mother, but in other bio's there's no mention of his loyalty.

He also gained higher positions with Cao Cao- inferring that he was working for him, not just idling his time away in order that he doesn't cause Liu Bei problems in the future.

This can be construed as a couple of things- he's so scared of Cao that he will work for him unquestioningly, therefore does him good- or, he wants to get position and please Cao, so he works hard and gets promoted.
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Unread postby Long » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:48 pm

Xu Shu's intent was to remain with Liu Bei and serve him. After his mother was captured, he stayed, and the reasons behind this have been debated before, but as far as original intent, he wanted to serve Liu Bei.
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Unread postby Kong Wen » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:29 pm

His reasons for not wanting to return to Liu Bei after he had been humiliated by Cao Cao and Cheng Yu are extremely complicated. :(
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