If Ma Chao wins at Tong Pass?

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If Ma Chao wins at Tong Pass?

Unread postby Jiang Zhi » Sat Oct 05, 2002 1:18 am

What if Ma Chao wins against Cao Cao at Tong Pass or he manages to chase down and kill him? Then Wei would be non-existant and Ma Chao would be in control of the Emperor! What would happen next? Liu Zhang falling to Liu Bei and such? Would China be united again? :D
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Unread postby DianWei » Sat Oct 05, 2002 1:29 am

no Ma Chao isnt smart enough... unless someone else takes him...
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Unread postby darthfergie » Sat Oct 05, 2002 5:28 am


Depends really. I can see Wu or Shu moving in on the kill along with Ma Chao and a basic shoot out in the middle. "Wei is crippled! Now is the time to take back the Empire for Han!"
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Unread postby Iznoach, Legendary Dragon » Sat Oct 05, 2002 6:40 am

Even if he had prevailed initially, eventually the might of Wei would have won. Like it was said earlier, Ma Chao wasn't smart enough, and compared to Cao Cao he looks retarded. They would have eventually lost their impetus, and would've been in total defeat from a ruse of Cao's very shortly after.
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Unread postby Stefanos » Sat Oct 05, 2002 5:37 pm

If you've ever played RTK VI then you get a taste of what it would've been like if Ma Chao had been victorious at Louyang and Xuchang. Cao Cao discussed with his officers the moving of the Capital to a northern city. If Cao Cai was killed, then yes, a brawl would ensue for control over the central plains. And like Ma Dai says, Ma Chao was only looking for Cao Cao, not land area.
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Unread postby Ieyasu Xundari » Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:43 pm

If Cao Cao was killed in that battle than the future of Wei would have been deeply at stake. If Cao Cao did not specifically leave someone in control of his kingdom after his death, then their would problably be many fights and arguements between the people that served him.
Would Sima Yi rule? What about Guo Jia? Cao Ren? Xiahou Dun?

They might even seperate the kingdom of Wei. Each leader taking his own portion of Wei's land. That would have put all of China in chaos again. I'd guess though that Shu and Wu would be the most powerful, since Wei got seperated into various pieces.

What do you think of this theory?
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Unread postby Elven Fury » Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:05 am

I would say he would have still gone to Liu Bei eventually...or made his own kingdom that would have fallen to Shu and expanded their lands and couldve given then the avdantege...
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Unread postby Man Chong » Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:10 am

Ma Teng was Liu Bei's good friend wasn't he? So Ma Chao and Bei would be friendly, and Ma Chao would cover Liu Bei while LIu Bei takes over Yi with the help of Ma Chao to the north.

Now Ma Chao stands between the rest of Wei and Liu Bei, ASSUMING taht Wei manages to hold together.

With Wu, Shu, and Ma Chao, Wei would eventually fall...

Then Wu will fight Liu Bei/Ma Chao, lose..then Ma Chao would get killed by one of Zhuge's clever ruses...game over, liu Bei wins..^_^
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Unread postby Elven Fury » Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:23 am

sounds good... but who would gain wei's generals or what... surely not Liu Bei... they were the like arch rivals... so Ma Chao May have gained o couple b/c of han Sui... he may come crawling back...
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Unread postby Sima Hui » Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:49 pm

It really depends on whether Cao Cao was killed or not. If he hadn't died, it is likely that he would have retreated to Luoyang and eventually defeat Ma Chao. If he was killed, then Cao Pi and Xiahou Dun would take over.

However; Cao Zhi would probably claim the throne and probably take Xu. Sima Yi and other geniuses would join him because of his abilities.

Liu Bei would ally with Ma Chao and take Northern Jing and Xu Chang. Cao Pi, assuming he escapes, would retreat to Ye.

Xiahou Dun. Xiahou Yuan, Cao Ren, Cao Xiu and Cao Zhen would be split over who to serve and rivalries would develop.

Cao Zhang would probably join Liu Bei, as he has little chance of wresting power from his brothers.

Liu Bei would rescue the Emperor. Sun Quan would invade South Jing. Liu Bei would form an alliance with Cao Zhi and invade Sun Quan from two sides. Wu would crumble.

They would split the territory and Zhuge Liang would persuade many Wu officers to join, along with Cao Zhi and Xu. Liu Zhang would remain neutral.

After that, what would happen is uncertain. If Sima Yi had joined Cao Pi, then Liu Bei would be held off for many years. During that time he would be joined by Ma Chao and Zhang Lu.

It could happen in lots of different ways. This is how I think it might have happened.
Last edited by Sima Hui on Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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