Why does everyone Love Sun Quan So much?

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Why does everyone Love Sun Quan So much?

Unread postby Jedi » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:53 am

WHY? Sun Quan is the most overratted leader in the 3 kingdoms era. He never lead the troops himself a leader should always lead the troops at the frount it is a leaders duty. Sun Quan didnt do any thing to expand his Brothers kingdom except get Jing and get beat by Zhang liao
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Unread postby Six_and_Up » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:35 am

Well he was a good leader for the Southland, particularly in taking advice of his ministers, was a decisive leader, made sure the Southland was stable throughout his reign and was able to make the best use of his advisers such as Zhou Yu or Lu Xun.

Its not really the job of Sun Quan to personally lead troops into battle, thats what generals are for. The real value of a leader in Sun Quan, Cao Cao or Liu Bei's position is their ability to use people. Thats what makes them able leaders. An prime historical example is the Chu-Han contention which led to the founding of the Han Dynasty. Liu Bang knew how to make use of his advisors while Xiang Yu mainly relied on his own might and power and in the end Liu Bang himself said it was Xiang Yu's inability to use his men properly which led to his downfall.

On expanding the kingdom, thats a whole debate in itself whether Sun Quan really wanted to expand Wu quickly. Remember Sun Ce's advice to Quan on his deathbed was that he should hold the Southland, because thats what he was good at and not go quickly to expand Wu's domain. Another factor to take into account is when Sun Quan was finally ready to take over China, it was a highly difficult task because Liu Bei and Cao Cao had both established themselves. Compare to when Cao Cao took the northern heartland he was fighting amongst multiple warlords whom all wanted to take everyone else out. Its much more difficult to win against one well-established foe than win against a pack of warlords who aren't looking out for each other.
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Re: Why does everyone Love Sun Quan So much?

Unread postby Jimayo » Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:24 am

Jedi wrote:WHY? Sun Quan is the most overratted leader in the 3 kingdoms era. He never lead the troops himself a leader should always lead the troops at the frount it is a leaders duty. Sun Quan didnt do any thing to expand his Brothers kingdom except get Jing and get beat by Zhang liao


Wow.

Seriously, wow.

A commander that fights at the front of a battle is a fool/


How much more so for a ruler?
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Unread postby Shadowlink » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:18 am

I guess people respect his methods... they have thier own opinions and they don't give a rats ass... Anyways he is a good ruler I just don't agree with his methods or how his general react with the Jingzhou thing.
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Unread postby Shi Tong » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:44 am

I agree with Six and Jimayo-

It's stupid for a leader of a country/ ruler to actually lead his men in battle.

Not that it's not brave and rightious or heroic, but it's not very smart.

TBH- how many times did you see Cao Cao or Liu Bei at the front of an army once the 3 kingdoms were formed? Not many is the answer!

Those things said, I dont particularly like Sun Quan.

I think as Six and Shadow said, he was a good leader because he recruited good men, he held his position against Cao Cao (who was incredibly powerful), and in the 3k position, even expanding his teritory into Jing Zhou, which was no small task.

The reason I dont like Sun Quan is because of his methods- he was a supreme backstabber (much like Cao Cao was IMO, but that said, Liu Bei could betray some people now and again), I didn't like the way he submitted to Cao Cao and attacked Liu Bei after they'd agreed to attack Wei together, and I dont like the way he betrayed Cao Cao either.

I just think he was very devisive- but then, he was smart in his devisiveness!
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Unread postby Shadowlink » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:52 am

Sun Quan likes to take the short cut/easy way out. he only want easy gains like attacking jingzhou, attacking south, attacking yi once it falls. Lu xun did not take alot of land or esle they might have to defend more land
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Unread postby Shi Tong » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:02 pm

Shadowlink, isn't that just what Liu Bei did when he moved on Liu Zhang? It was a part of land which wasn't occupied by a strong leader and therefore Liu Bei saw an opportunity to take it and use it to his advantage.

I mean- if you're playing a game- you attack a weak spot dont you? That's the way you win! It might be brutal, back handed or underhanded, but if you're "that way inclined", and you want to make your land more powerful or bigger, that's the way to do it isn't it?
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Unread postby Jimayo » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:06 pm

I never said I like Sun Quan. I don't. But I respect his talent. He was a good ruler. Just a man of poor character.
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Unread postby Shi Tong » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:31 pm

Jimayo- I didn't suggest you did- I mearly mentioned that I dont personally like him. I agree with you- he was a man of poor character (if you concider being a back stabber a bad character trait!)
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Unread postby Shadowlink » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:41 pm

At least Liu bei and Pang tong has a heart and think it over rationally instead of leaping in the hole with zhang song, that is why zhang song died, in his heart pang tong didnt want to fight back smile on the outside. Plus it was liu zhang and his Generals who wanted to kill bei. If Bei wanted to he could have taken alot of land under people he was with =/.
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