Was it Xu Shu's fault that his mommy died? (Novel)

Join the Romance of the Three Kingdoms discussion with our resident Scholars. Topics relating to the novel and history are both welcome. Don't forget to check the Forum Rules before posting.
Kongming’s Archives: Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Three Kingdoms Officer Biographies
Three Kingdoms Officer Encyclopedia
Scholars of Shen Zhou Search Tool

Unread postby Kong Wen » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:01 am

Chris the King wrote:But doesn't Xu Shu share some of the blame, though? He participated in life-and-death matters against the state, which was ruled by a ruthless de facto dictator. Wasn't it his responsibility to make sure his mother would be safe?

That's what he was trying to do. She was safe. She was just fine. He went to her. And then she killed herself. Cao Cao didn't have her executed.
"We spread the time as we can, but in the end the world takes it all back."
— Roland Deschain, Wolves of the Calla
User avatar
Kong Wen
The Bronze Age of SoSZ
The Bronze Age of SoSZ
 
Posts: 11909
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:38 pm
Location: Canada

Unread postby Chris the King » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:04 am

But she wasn't safe. In fact, she would have been dead if Cheng Yu had not hatched the plan in the first place. Cao Cao was already in the middle of sending her to be executed after she verbally blasted him.

And even if she was safe, there was a very very very high possibility that she wasn't safe! It goes against common sense that he, one of the brightest minds during that time period, failed to take the most elementary precautions.
I like you...but you're crazy.
User avatar
Chris the King
Changshi
 
Posts: 382
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:36 pm
Location: City by the Bay

Unread postby Pi Ka Chu » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:04 am

Chris the King wrote:But doesn't Xu Shu share some of the blame, though? He participated in life-and-death matters against the state, which was ruled by a ruthless de facto dictator. Wasn't it his responsibility to make sure his mother would be safe?

To put it in today's terms, let's say you were an undercover cop, and you just busted a bunch of mafia guys. Your cover is now blown and they're in the slammer, but you don't bother to take measures to protect your family. Wouldn't you share in the blame?


He did he went to her side because he thought she was indanger. It was foolish for the mother to act that way. She did not appriciate her son's concern. Xu Shu had no idea that his mom would kill herself, he only wanted to protect her. He is still not at fualt.
Nice guys don't insists on being creepers just because they were nice.
User avatar
Pi Ka Chu
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 738
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:18 am
Location: Watching Ratatosk insult the eagle on Yggdrasil for the wrym Níðhöggr

Unread postby Chris the King » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:15 am

To clarify, I mean why didn't he take precautions before hand? Going back to my Donnie Brasco analogy, it's sort of like blowing your cover and then becoming worried about her and going to her. Sorta weird if you ask me.
I like you...but you're crazy.
User avatar
Chris the King
Changshi
 
Posts: 382
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:36 pm
Location: City by the Bay

Unread postby Pi Ka Chu » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:19 am

Quite simply, he didn't think that Cheng Yu would be able to weed her out. He was using a Psuedonym inorder to protect his and her Identity.
Nice guys don't insists on being creepers just because they were nice.
User avatar
Pi Ka Chu
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 738
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:18 am
Location: Watching Ratatosk insult the eagle on Yggdrasil for the wrym Níðhöggr

Unread postby Chris the King » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:25 am

Fair enough, that does make sense to me. Guess he wasn't 10 times smarter than Chengy after all.

But personally, if I were to use my tactical knowledge to defy the prime minister of the Han dynasty, I'd rather go with getting my momma out of there first.
I like you...but you're crazy.
User avatar
Chris the King
Changshi
 
Posts: 382
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:36 pm
Location: City by the Bay

Unread postby Kong Wen » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:42 am

Chris the King wrote:Fair enough, that does make sense to me. Guess he wasn't 10 times smarter than Chengy after all.

No, he wasn't. Only by a couple of INT points. ;)

Chris the King wrote:But personally, if I were to use my tactical knowledge to defy the prime minister of the Han dynasty, I'd rather go with getting my momma out of there first.

Yeah, poor mum. The novel makes it seem like they were launched into battle as soon as Yuanzhi joined up, leaving little time for him to sneak back home and move his family to somewhere—anywhere—out of Cao's control. Liu Bei didn't yet have a permanent home. Major oversight, but that doesn't mean he should be blamed for her selfish suicide.
"We spread the time as we can, but in the end the world takes it all back."
— Roland Deschain, Wolves of the Calla
User avatar
Kong Wen
The Bronze Age of SoSZ
The Bronze Age of SoSZ
 
Posts: 11909
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:38 pm
Location: Canada

Unread postby Pi Ka Chu » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:45 am

She was safe for the most part and like Kong Wen said SHE KILLED HERSELF. Xu Shu was only too late to stop it; he couldn't help it. Though, its odd that a ground man would spend that long crying.
Nice guys don't insists on being creepers just because they were nice.
User avatar
Pi Ka Chu
Scholar of Shen Zhou
 
Posts: 738
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:18 am
Location: Watching Ratatosk insult the eagle on Yggdrasil for the wrym Níðhöggr

Unread postby Kong Wen » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:51 am

Pi Ka Chu wrote:She was safe for the most part and like Kong Wen said SHE KILLED HERSELF. Xu Shu was only too late to stop it; he couldn't help it. Though, its odd that a ground man would spend that long crying.

Well, like Chris said, if it weren't for Cheng Yu's plan to use her to lure Xu Shu, then Cao would have executed her. So there is a hypothetical scenario in which she wouldn't have killed herself.

I don't think it would be very odd for Xu Shu to cry, especially given the fact that she ragged him out before she did herself in. He was embarrassed enough that he fell for Cheng's plot, shamed enough not to return to Liu Bei, and on top of that, his mom's last words to him were mean ones. :(
"We spread the time as we can, but in the end the world takes it all back."
— Roland Deschain, Wolves of the Calla
User avatar
Kong Wen
The Bronze Age of SoSZ
The Bronze Age of SoSZ
 
Posts: 11909
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:38 pm
Location: Canada

Unread postby Dong Zhou » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:22 am

I agree somewhat with Chris, he should have secured the mother first but outside of battle, Xu Shu doesn't seem to me as that smart so perhaps it isn't suprising at his lack of forethought.

After he lost his mother, he should return to Liu Bei to try and make amends personally.
User avatar
Dong Zhou
A-Dou
A-Dou
 
Posts: 17438
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:32 pm
Location: "Now we must die. May Your Majesty maintain yourself"

PreviousNext

Return to Sanguo Yanyi Symposium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Copyright © 2002–2008 Kongming’s Archives. All Rights Reserved