Sun Ce and Sun Quan Who was the better ruler?

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Who was better overall?

Sun Ce
28
47%
Sun Quan
32
53%
 
Total votes : 60

Sun Ce and Sun Quan Who was the better ruler?

Unread postby Shadowlink » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:20 pm

Who is better the Sun or the Moon?
I know this kind of belongs in the vs threads but Im just wondering who people are attracted to from wu.
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Unread postby Sun Gongli » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:03 pm

Sun Ce. There isn't much mentioned about his administrative abilities, but militarily, he was so superior to Quan that it isn't even funny. Sun Ce was also a lot more ambitious. Historically, there aren't any examples of Sun Ce's supposed "hot headedness" that he gets in Sanguo Yanyi.
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Unread postby Gabriel » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:03 pm

Sun Quan was just as ambitious as Sun Ce. Look at the whole Jing ordeal, and how many times Wu attacked Wei. He just wasn't as successful in his long stretch of rule (not counting taking Jing) as Sun Ce was.
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Unread postby Exar Kun » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:24 pm

Sun Quan was better. Quan used good advice and he kept his kingdom strong, safe and prosperous. His foreign relations leave alot to be desired but at the end of the day he preserved Wu.
More than I can say for Sun Ce had he survived. Attacking Cao Cao isn't an idea for success, more like death.
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Unread postby MiZhu42 » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:38 pm

Sun Ce might have been a better field commander than Sun Quan, but Sun Quan attracted so many great men to Wu. Just think if Zhou Yu hadn't joined Wu; the Battle of Chi Bi would have been lost and Wu conquered soon thereafter. A lot of historians (and I'm persuaded by them) attribute Wu's survival for any period of time at all to Sun Quan's ability to hire skilled commanders and tacticians.
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Unread postby JamesD » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:57 pm

Both Sun quan and Sun Ce have there good and bad spots. I would go with Sun Quan for what he did later on. As mentioned before he does keep his kingdom safe and listened to adivce. He made alliances when necesary and attacked when he thought was right.
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Unread postby man_on_the_pot » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:14 pm

Sun Ce without a doubt. He was able to attract for the most part all of Wu's most talented guys. He subjugated Jiang Dong very fast, and proved he could easily destroy Liu Biao of Jing.

And, if he was planning to attack Cao Cao, it wouldn't have been suicide, it would have been opportunistic because Cao Cao's main army was fighting Yuan Shao at the time.

Had Sun Ce lived longer, he would have been much more of a threat to Cao Cao than Sun Quan ever dreamed of being.
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Unread postby kvn_m » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:05 am

MiZhu42 wrote:Sun Ce might have been a better field commander than Sun Quan, but Sun Quan attracted so many great men to Wu. Just think if Zhou Yu hadn't joined Wu; the Battle of Chi Bi would have been lost and Wu conquered soon thereafter. A lot of historians (and I'm persuaded by them) attribute Wu's survival for any period of time at all to Sun Quan's ability to hire skilled commanders and tacticians.


What're u talking about? Most of the able men were attracted by Sun Ce, not Quan.
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Unread postby Shadowlink » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:11 am

But Later on Quan attracted more men because the dynasty warrior game said it had young and able officers meaning young and able under sun quan
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Unread postby Starscream » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:25 am

Quoted from SGZ, from Sun Ce's own words, "举江东之众,决机於两陈之间,与天下争衡,卿不如我;举贤任能,各尽其心,以保江东,我不知卿。"

Simplifying this, he said to Sun Quan, in terms of command and conquer, you don't fare better than me; in terms of defending and maintaining Jiang Dong, I don't fare better than you.

Both brothers were very charismatic and attracted talent to their cause. Both inherited command of their land/army at a very young age and expanded what was given to them by their predecessors. Sun Ce could have done more if he had lived longer (probably campaigned and defeated Liu Biao). Sun Quan was blessed with longevity hence he stabilised Jiang Dong.

I'll favour Sun Quan more than Sun Ce. Like it or not, Sun Quan's disastrous campaigns and shrewd diplomatic strategies, coupled with his long lifespan made Wu the longest lasting state among the three kingdoms. :lol:
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